December 6, 1951

SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

I want to make this statement. I have never yet obstructed in this house. There are others in this house who perhaps-

Topic:   7. 19S1
Permalink
LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Order. The Minister of Public Works has withdrawn. If he has, the hon. member has no more to say. Shall the resolution carry?

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in.

Mr. Chevrier thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 33, to establish the St. Lawrence seaway authority.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   7. 19S1
Permalink

ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Hon. Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport) moved

that the house go into committee to consider the following resolution:

That it is expedient to bring in a measure to approve an agreement between the government of

St. Lawrence Power Development

Canada and the government of the province of Ontario respecting power development in the international rapids section of the St. Lawrence river; and to provide further for the transfer to the government of Ontario of the administration of certain lands or property pursuant to the agreement.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Elie Beauregard (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. Speaker:

Is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

Mr. Speaker, I object to this.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Alphonse Fournier (Minister of Public Works; Leader of the Government in the House of Commons; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Hon. Alphonse Fournier (Minister of Public Works):

If my hon. friend will permit me,

on Monday I met the leader of the hon. member's party and the leaders of the other parties, at which time it was agreed that the discussion on the first resolution would apply to the second resolution. Yesterday during the debate I did not bring this matter up, except at the adjournment.

I now feel somewhat ill at ease, because after having these interviews with the leaders it was agreed that this resolution would go through and that the bill would be tabled immediately, so that hon. members would have it. I am appealing to the hon. member to see if we can keep this agreement.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
SC

John Horne Blackmore

Social Credit

Mr. Blackmore:

The information had not been conveyed to me that this arrangement was made by the leader of this group. Since it was made, I am bound by it. Otherwise I would oppose this thing for days, because I believe we are making a very serious mistake in passing these important measures through too fast.

Motion agreed to and the house went into committee, Mr. Beaudoin in the chair.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Louis-René Beaudoin (Deputy Chair of Committees of the Whole)

Liberal

The Deputy Chairman:

Shall the resolution carry?

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

I think some explanation is necessary from the minister. This resolution is completely different from the one just passed, in that it involves an agreement between the province of Ontario and the federal government as to the method of financing. Lands are to be handed over on a reciprocal basis, and so on. I would like the minister to tell us how the financial details are to be worked out as between the province and the dominion.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

Perhaps briefly I might say this: In the first place it was thought unnecessary to introduce a resolution with reference to this agreement at all, by reason of the fact that there is no money passing. Under the terms of the agreement which has already been tabled by the Prime Minister, the province of Ontario is going to establish and produce its share of the 2,200,000 horsepower. But because of the fact that in this agreement there is a clause which provides for the turning over to the province of certain crown lands of the dominion, such as Sheek island,

St. Lawrence Power Development and other islands in the vicinity of the international rapids section, this was done in order that a point of order might not be raised in case someone thought a constitutional point was involved.

Really both resolutions have been dealt with in the general discussion. I have given the only reason for this resolution. That is why the leader of the house thought he had an understanding that both would be considered together.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

That does not answer the question. I have read the agreement. The reason I am asking the question is that, even after reading it, I am still not clear as to the financial responsibility between the dominion and Ontario, and as to the value of the lands. Ontario will be passing some lands to the dominion government and the dominion government will be transferring crown lands to the province. Considerable capital is involved in the transaction, and I do not think the agreement makes it quite clear.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

The agreement certainly makes clear the question of the cost, in so far as the development of power is concerned. In so far as the lands are concerned, those will be determined when the authority in the state of New York and that in the province of Ontario, through the Hydro Electric Power Commission, have completed their negotiations.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

The authority we set up under the first resolution will have complete power in working out the details of this power agreement?

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

No, we have nothing to do with that. We have complete power with reference to the seaway.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
CCF

Clarence Gillis

Co-operative Commonwealth Federation (C.C.F.)

Mr. Gillis:

That is why I am asking the questions. Of course right now there is no authority at all, except the agreement on paper between the dominion government and the province of Ontario. Then the state of New York enters into it. Actually there is no supervisory authority so far as the federal government is concerned. Is the province of Ontario going ahead with the state of New York, on its own, so far as development is concerned, without any control at all on the part of the federal government?

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink
LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

If it is to be an all-Canadian project the answer would be yes. The application would be made by the province of Ontario and the state of New York to a federal body, the international joint commission. But if it is to be a project under the 1941 agreement, then the answer to my hon. friend's question is no.

Resolution reported, read the second time and concurred in.

Mr. Chevrier thereupon moved for leave to introduce Bill No. 34, respecting construction of works for the generation of electrical power in the international rapids section of the St. Lawrence river.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

Topic:   ST. LAWRENCE POWER DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT BETWEEN FEDERAL AND ONTARIO GOVERNMENTS
Permalink

COMBINES LEGISLATION

JOINT COMMITTEE


Mr. James Sinclair (Coasi-Capilano) presented the second and final report of the joint committee of the Senate and the House of Commons on combines legislation.


December 6, 1951