Mr. H. R. Argue (Assiniboia):

I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Trade and Commerce. Is the minister in position to announce' the personnel of the Canadian delegation which is to carry on negotiations for a new international wheat agreement?

Right Hon. C. D. Howe (Minister of Trade and Commerce):

I understand that an

announcement is being made in the press today. The delegation will be made up of Mr. Sharp and Dr. Wilson, of the Department of Trade and Commerce; three representatives of the wheat board, two of whom are now in

London, Mr. Lawrie and Mr. Biddulph; and Mr. McNamara of Winnipeg. The advisers to the delegation will be the presidents of the three wheat pools, the president of the United Grain Growers, and a man who I believe is not an office holder in the farmers union but has been nominated by them.

Mr. Charles Henry (Rosedale):

Mr. Speaker, may I ask leave to revert to first reading of a Senate bill, which is on the order paper as Bill No. 61, in order that it may be given first reading now?

Mr. Speaker:

Is it agreed that the house revert to first reading of Senate bills?

Agreed.

Mr. Henry:

I move the first reading of Bill No. 61 (from the Senate), respecting the British Northwestern Fire Insurance Company.

Motion agreed to and bill read the first time.

On the order for committee of supply:

Hon. Douglas Abbott (Minister of Finance):

Mr. Speaker, I had a word with the leaders of the various parties and it was agreed unanimously that we should proceed in committee of supply and committee of ways and means to deal with the usual interim supply for the first two months of the coming fiscal year and then take up the final supplementary estimates.

Mr. J. M. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

Mr. Speaker, is my understanding correct that if you leave the chair it will be for the purpose not merely of dealing with interim supply but also of going into committee on the supplementary estimates? I wished to have a few words to say on the supplementary estimates and if this is the appropriate moment, I can say them now.

Mr. Abbott:

Of course my hon. friend can make his remarks at any time, but he will realize that we will be going into and out of committee of supply several times before we get interim supply through, and before we get the items of the supplementary estimates voted and the appropriate supply bills based upon them put through. So far as I am concerned, I have no objection to his making his remarks at any time he sees fit.

Supply

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

I think perhaps I had better do it now, and then we may have the pain behind us. I want to say a word which I have no doubt has been said before, but which I hope will never have to be said again. I want to refer to the practice which seems to be growing of bringing down these supplementary estimates just far enough in advance of the end of the year to put the proper amount of pressure on the opposition to be good boys and carry them through. I am not arguing about bringing them down a day earlier; I am arguing about bringing them down a week or two earlier so that this important matter can be dealt with as it should be. I am going to suggest very earnestly that what has become almost a routine procedure could be abandoned in future with great profit to all of us.

Just a word about the size of the supplementary estimates. Two hundred and forty-six million dollars is a lot of money. One can cast his mind back not so many years ago when that would represent a large percentage of the total expenditures for the year. But when one examines this figure it is not so much its size that strikes one as the fact that there are one or two items included in it which almost seem to suggest that, for reasons which I do not understand, the minister wishes to inflate the figure as high as he can. It may be that the minister has a prudent eye on the political situation and is looking ahead, but there are two items here, one of $102 million and the other of $37 million-

Mr. Abbott:

Fifty-seven million.

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

For Polymer.

Mr. Abbott:

1 beg your pardon; I thought you were referring to old age pensions.

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

The $57 million has to do with old age pensions, and that amount is in a different category. This item of $102 million would appear almost like an act of repentance and reparation. For a long time we appear to have neglected the superannuation fund of the civil service, but we are now trying to make up for lost ground and this year we have an item totalling $102 million. I think that compares with the $75 million a year ago. No one can question the propriety of that. Of course we have to have a sound fund. All I am pointing out is that there are people who are suggesting that this $102 million does not actually have to come in this year. They are suggesting that it and one or two other items are perhaps put in with a view to cutting down the minister's surplus, of which he spoke so proudly in the middle of February, but with a pride which perhaps is subject to qualification later on.

Supply

On that I have no view at all. I am just raising the point as it has been raised, and it is conceivable that this $102 million may-have come in wholly because the minister thought it was a matter of prudent bookkeeping to show what I suppose is a liability. We shall learn more about that later. But there is also the possibility that the minister thought it would be desirable to bring this in -he might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb-at this moment and get it behind him and be that much better off next year when possibly there may be reasons for trying to gentle the electorate.

The other item I wish to refer to is one dealing with Polymer. There I am even more surprised, because that item of $37 million is shown as part of this $246 million. If I understand the transaction correctly, it is what may euphemistically be called a bookkeeping transaction and does not actually represent an outlay of $37 million. I assume that when the budget comes out perhaps this-

Mr. Abbott:

It is not a budgetary item at all.