The Chairman:

Order. Perhaps the hon. member has not noticed that government grain elevators are not under this item but are under item 460.

Mr. McLure:

I think there are some 1,200 employees of this board and I would like to know how many are civil servants and how many are permanent. When I asked the minister a question on another item I understood him to say that none of the employees were civil servants.

Mr. Howe:

My hon. friend was asking about the Canada wheat board. The costs of that board, including the staff, are paid by the producers of grain. The government exercises general supervision over the work of the board but does not pay any of the expenses. The board of grain commissioners is quite different. Its costs are paid by the government and all its officers are paid by the government. Practically all the officers of the board of grain commissioners are permanent civil servants, even the elevator operators.

Mr. Charlton:

Could the minister tell us what amount of grain was handled through the government elevators last year, giving each elevator separately?

Mr. Howe:

Some days ago I brought down the annual report of the board. That gives the information. I am sorry I have not a copy here. The reason my hon. friend does not have a copy is that we have not been able to get the report from the printers, but I am told it will be available for distribution next week, well before the meeting of the agriculture committee, and it contains all that information. The only information I have here is that the earned revenue from government elevators was $1,101,914 and the expenditures were $911,745, so there was a profit of about $200,000 in the operation of the elevators. That covers the elevators at Prince Rupert, Moose Jaw, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton and Lethbridge, and the Port Arthur elevator which is leased to a private operator.

Mr. Charlton:

And Churchill?

Mr. Howe:

And the one at Churchill.

Mr. Charlton:

Am I to understand there is an operating profit of around $200,000 on the government elevators?

Mr. Howe:

There was last year.

Mr. Charlton:

An over-all profit?

Mr. Howe:

That is right.

Mr. Fleming:

Under item 462 we have apparently a new division within this department, the international economic and technical co-operation division, with a director at a salary of $12,000, four administrative officers, a librarian, control process officers, three stenographers and a clerk. I wonder if we could have from the minister a statement as to the reason for establishing this new division? I hope we do not need to assure the minister or the house that there has been unanimous support for the provisions made by the Colombo plan, but does it inevitably follow that because Canada is providing needed technical assistance to the commonwealth countries in southeast Asia that there must be this new division set up within the department?

Mr. Howe:

Mr. Chairman, the amounts are quite substantial. We have made two grants of $25 million each, and that money must be spent to the satisfaction of the taxpayers of Canada as well as the recipient countries. The personnel of the division are mostly concerned with that plan. Nik Cavell is a man with a great deal of experience in work in the area in which the Colombo plan is being executed. I would be glad to read the extract from the annual report of the department bearing on this branch, if the hon. member so desires.

Mr. Fleming:

Is it very lengthy?

Mr. Howe:

It is a full page, yes.

Mr. Fleming:

None of us has a copy of the report which was just tabled this afternoon.

Mr. Howe:

I understand that, and I am sorry, but there again it has been delayed in the printing office. It will be available within a day or two. I do not know that I can read a short extract that would be particularly illuminating. It is necessary, however, to examine with the countries concerned the type of assistance that will be satisfactory to them. We believe that is something that will appeal to the Canadian people. For example, in Pakistan I believe we are building a cement plant, and that is something Canada can do very well. In India there are hydroelectric projects, certain irrigation projects, and over all there is the technical assistance program which calls for administration. We send administrators from Canada out to the field to do work in the field, and

Supply-Trade and Commerce we also take people from the area to Canada to give them instructions in Canadian methods. I think that Canada could hardly hope to do a job under the Colombo plan without considerable experienced staff who could handle the problems that are encountered.