May 12, 1953

LIB

George Matheson Murray

Liberal

Mr. Murray (Cariboo):

If Mr. Laing is elected premier of British Columbia this whole thing will be resolved.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I just want to make this statment. If my hon. friend wants to charge the federal government with responsibility I must say to him that the Department of Transport has no responsibility as far as the Marpole bridge is concerned, and I think he knows that. There has been some attempt to charge this department with responsibility for construction of the bridge, but I think it is admitted on all sides that it has not that responsibility. The Department of Transport does not build bridges of this kind.

As far as blame for lack of construction is concerned, I do not think it is up to the federal government to take the initiative. I do not know what is in the mind of the municipality of the city of Vancouver but, as I said to my hon. friend, if they have any proposition to put to me I shall be glad to listen to it. When it was put to me it was not on that basis; it was on the basis of an out and out sale.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

I think that is the understanding, that any money paid by the dominion would be used to help construct the bridge.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I was not aware of that.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

Howard Charles Green

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Green:

This may not be the department responsible for helping to construct the bridge but other ministers, notably the Minister of Trade and Commerce, have been involved in these negotiations. It is just too bad that no progress has been made.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

Winfield Chester Scott McLure

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McLure:

Probably I am not right in putting my question here, and the item may have come up before I arrived. However, I would like to ask the minister on this item, civil aviation, whether he has anything further to report with reference to the airport at Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island?

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

There is an item in the estimates for the extension of the runway at Charlottetown; but it is on the distinct understanding that the municipality will operate the airport.

Supply-Transport

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

This is an item for over $9 million. If we look back to the preceding page we see an item for $15 million for telecommunications and $6 million for meteorological services. If we are allowed to cast our eyes forward a couple of items we find another item of $9 million for construction.

I get almost dizzy over the apparent complexity of the organization. In item 494 we have control of civil aviation, and at page 546 I find that we have a controller of civil aviation. Then we come to the item which is called "civil aviation services", and I read at page 548 that we have a superintendent of airways. A little later we come to construction and at page 553 I find that we have a superintendent of construction, air services.

Altogether, Mr. Chairman, we are considering items amounting to between $40 and $50 million, and I would ask the minister who has charge of all of this. As I look at these three services-control of civil aviation, control of civil aviation services, and construction services, judging from the relation of their salaries those at the head are evidently rated very much at the same level. These are tremendously large amounts, and I wish the minister would indicate what over-all supervision there is. Are these three officials working more or less on their own, keeping in touch with each other as best they may? What is the division of authority between them, and to whom do they report? Who is responsible for seeing that there is no overlapping in each of these services? I shall not take time to list them but there are scores, probably hundreds of employees in some cases. It is a tremendous undertaking in which the people of Canada are spending well on toward $50 million a year.

I want to add that the air transport board comes in here. Would the minister just indicate in a general way who is at the head of this organization? Who is responsible? Who controls these various departments and assumes responsibility to the minister- because after all he has twenty other things to do? Who assumes responsibility to him that these things are all co-ordinated, that there is no overlapping, and that the whole matter runs smoothly and efficiently.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

Mr. Chairman, the civil aviation branch of the Department of Transport is divided under three headings. There are first the meteorological services, next the telecommunications services, and third the civil aviation. Each of the three has a controller, and the over-all director is the

Supply-Transport

director of air services. The director of air services is responsible for the control of telecommunications, for the control of civil aviation and for the control of meteorological services. Each division spends a tremendous amount of money because airport, airways and air route facilities cost a great deal of money. The radio services in particular are extremely expensive. Radio facilities and the necessary air routes are matters of considerable expense. The matter of taking weather observations is a branch of the department under the controller of meteorological services. The three controllers report to the director of air services who happens to be Air Vice Marshal Cowley, a very old and experienced and trusted officer of the department.

Again, those three divisions are broken down into various other divisions such as air regulations, airways and airports, aeronautical engineering, construction and civil engineering. The vote with which we are concerned at the moment is one which has to do with construction, and which has to do with the building of airports, airstrips, terminal buildings and the like from one end of the country to the other. It is for that reason that the amount is so large. When one considers that to build an airstrip capable of taking the most modern aircraft it costs, roughly speaking, anywhere from three-quarters of a million to a million dollars, one realizes at once that you cannot go very far with a vote of $9 million. Those are the main divisions of the department in so far as the civil aviation branch is concerned.

Now, the hon. member asked something about the air transport board. The air transport board is that body which deals with the licensing of air routes. It is represented by the chairman, who is Mr. John R. Baldwin, and it has two functions, one a regulatory function and the other an advisory function. The duties of this body are set out in the Aeronautics Act. Under that act one will find that the air transport board has an advisory responsibility to the minister, and in some cases to the government. It is the body that grants licences for all the air lines, either commercial, passenger or cargo. I could go on with perhaps ten or fifteen other different categories of licences.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

Would the minister say a word about international civil aviation?

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

The air transport board makes advisory recommendations to the governor in council in connection with international service. For instance, there have been negotiations between Canadian Pacific Air Lines

and the government of Mexico for an air route along the west coast, from Vancouver through San Francisco and on into Mexico. Canadian Pacific Air Lines are anxious to operate there. We must give something in return for that service. The air transport board is the body that will carry on negotiations on behalf of the government with Mexico to ascertain, first of all, if it is possible to arrange for alternate routes on the west coast. Trans-Canada Air Lines is interested also in going into Mexico on the east coast, and it might be necessary to make certain concessions to the government of Mexico so they may operate an air line into eastern Canada, either through Montreal or Toronto.

In so far as the international aspect of this matter is concerned, the air transport board will not only advise the government as to whether or not it is to the advantage of Canada to grant reciprocal rights in exchange for certain rights in Mexico, but will carry on negotiations on behalf of the government, together with representatives of the Department of External Affairs.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

My understanding is that the heads of these three departments report to Air Vice Marshal

Cowley?

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

That is right.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

James MacKerras Macdonnell

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Macdonnell (Greenwood):

He is in

control, co-ordinating and regulating the whole thing and reporting to the minister?

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

That is right.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

Gordon Francis Higgins

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Higgins:

Under date of May 7 there is a press release from the Royal Canadian Air Force which relates to Torbay airport in Newfoundland. It reads:

Department of Transport meteorologists and telecommunications operators are remaining at Torbay to carry out essential duties, and the change-over allows for continuation of limited commercial operations from the station.

What does that mean?

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

This is a transfer of Torbay to the United States air force because United States defence forces-

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

Gordon Francis Higgins

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Higgins:

I am afraid that is not so.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Minister of Transport)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I am afraid I have misinterpreted this. It is a transfer by the United States air force to the R.C.A.F. because of the interest the R.C.A.F. have in Torbay.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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PC

Gordon Francis Higgins

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Higgins:

It cannot be a transfer from the United States.

Topic:   ANNOUNCEMENT OF APPOINTMENT OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE OF CANADA, THE SPEAKER OF THE SENATE, THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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May 12, 1953