Mr. Johnston:

Mr. Chairman, when item 239 was called I asked the minister what the coal board was doing to initiate an effective national fuel policy for Canada. The minister got up immediately and said with a great deal of enthusiasm, "I expected the hon. member was going to ask that and I have something here to tell him which is really going to be good," or words to that effect. I immediately said to myself, "This is just before an election and they are coming out with a national fuel policy, which is all to the good; elections do some good at

5292 HOUSE OF

Supply-Mines and Technical Surveys some times". But when I listened to the minister I found that there was no semblance of a new national fuel policy for Canada to be found in his remarks.

Mr. Prudham:

Can the hon. gentleman suggest what he thinks would be a good national fuel policy and how he would administer it?

Mr. Johnston:

I have told the minister in this house on several occasions what I thought should be done and he has not taken advantage of that. That may not be his particular fault but the thing I want to emphasize is that I asked what the government was doing through the coal board to establish an effective national fuel policy for Canada. I took down just a few notes while the minister was speaking. He said that one of the principles of the new policy was a sound and healthy industry for Canada. I think under the circumstances this industry is anything but healthy; the signs are that it is not going to be very healthy. The figures produced by the dominion bureau of statistics show that our production in Canada has been dropping every year. It may be true, as the minister has said, that we have had a mild winter, and that therefore a smaller quantity of coal has been marketed. But if we go back over the years we find that our coal production has been reduced. The minister has said that we are supposed to keep an adequate supply for Canadian requirements. No one would suggest that that could be described as a new policy, particularly when many of our mines are closing down. Surely that is not going to be very encouraging for the mining industry and the miners of this country, when they are told that this is the new national fuel policy that we are going to have.

Mr. Prudham:

I did not suggest it was new. I said it was a consistent policy over the years.

Mr. Johnston:

The minister says it is not new, and X agree wholeheartedly in that. He says it is the type of thing that has been going on for the last few years. But I say to him that is not good enough, and I would strongly urge the minister to do something. It is his responsibility to act so as to give our coal mining industry a policy which would bring it up to par and leave it in a healthy condition. In this way, in a time of emergency, we would be able to fall back on that industry for our requirements. That is in the interests of Canada, and I am sure it is also in the interests of the coal mining industry and those who are engaged in it.

Mr. Higgins:

Mr. Chairman, may I be permitted to revert for a moment to the preceding item. I did not have a chance to speak when it was before the committee. I refer to

the question of the boundary between Labrador and Newfoundland. Is the minister in a position to make a statement as to what has happened in this connection?

Mr. Prudham:

Is it the wish of the committee that we revert to that item?

The Chairman:

Has the discussion with respect to the coal board terminated?

Mr. Gillis:

I would like to add one word. The minister asked if we had anything to recommend by way of a national fuel policy. I am not going to say anything about it at all, except this: if you would take a look at Hansard for the month of June, 1948, you will find where I spelled out in detail the mechanics of a national fuel policy. I do not remember the exact date, but it was at some time in that month.

Mr. Prudham:

I have no doubt that all hon. members could figure out a very satisfactory fuel policy. But do not forget that the development of these resources is in the hands of the provinces; and a national policy that would solve all the ills of the coal mining industry in Canada, and supply the consumers of Canada with Canadian coal, sounds very nice. But how are we going to bring it about? You cannot put the industry, the consumers, or the people of Canada in a strait-jacket. This is a democracy; and so long as private enterprise is in the field, and so long as we believe in free private enterprise, democracy has to work in a slower manner. I am convinced that, with the help of this government, the coal board, and such provincial governments as will co-operate, the industry will eventually move out of its present difficulty.

I believe the major sore spot in the west has been aggravated largely through the development of oil and gas, which has displaced Alberta coal, and especially the softer types of coal, in the local market.

A few months ago I met the operators in the Drumheller valley. I talked over their problems with their executive, and discussed how they might be helped. The suggestion was made, and acted upon, that we appoint representatives of the industry, the Alberta department of research, the coal board and a member of the fuels branch of the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys. They have been working on the problem of producing a product which will store. As yet that report has not been completed and has not come to my hand. However, they are making an honest effort, in co-operation with the coal board and others, to solve this problem. I do not think it is at all hopeless.

As some hon. members have said, we are passing through a period of transition. I share their worries and apprehensions about

workers in the constituencies. However, I think the situation could be a lot worse-at least it seems to be worse in United States mines-so far as unemployment is concerned. I am sure the situation will work out.

The Chairman:

I think it is the wish of the minister to reply to the question asked by the hon. member for St. John's East in connection with item 238, which was carried earlier. However, I wished to dispose of the discussion of the coal board item before returning to the one to which the hon. member referred.

238. Provincial and territorial boundary surveys -administration, operation and maintenance, $48,924.

Mr. Prudham:

In connection with the

Quebec-Labrador boundary, the Department of Mines and Technical Surveys will head up a commission to establish a boundary, after a request by both provinces. The expense of the survey is shared equally, I believe, by this government and the two provincial governments concerned. As yet we have had no request from either Quebec or Newfoundland.

Mr. Higgins:

And the cost will be split three ways?

Mr. Prudham:

I believe that is so, but I would not be sure of it.

Mr. Browne (SI. John's West):

I would like to have a report from the fisheries research board. The parliamentary assistant said that it was in the hands of the printers. Is it ready for publication? Then, my second question is this: who will be the Newfoundland representative or representatives on the fisheries research board?

Mr. MacNaughl:

Mr. Chairman, in connection with the first question, I checked on the report of the fisheries research board and I find that it is still in the hands of the queen's printer. I have also checked the date on which it was tabled in former years, and I find that at least in the last three years it was tabled during the month of June. So there is nothing unusual this year in the fact that the report is not ready for tabling at this early date.

In replying to the second question, there has been no decision made concerning the Newfoundland appointment on the research board.

68108-334i

Supply-Fisheries

Mr. Higgins:

I should like briefly to review this item. First of all I would say to the minister how much we appreciated the luncheon served in the experimental kitchen of his department, and what it has done for the consumption of fish. We are truly grateful for having had this demonstration of what can be done with fish when it is handled properly. I want to say to him that I have a Canadian Press report dated April 23, headed "Hold Pork Program interferes with Fish Sales". I am not going to read it all but the suggestion is that the stockpiling of pork is interfering with the selling of fish. It goes further into the idea that the present glut in our fresh fish market is particularly caused by this pork piling, if you want to put it that way. I do wish the minister to remember that it may be perfectly all right to buy up all the pork that may be bought, but if that is going to interfere with our fish sales it should not be handled in the way it is handled. I will send this particular clipping over to the minister with the remark made by Mr. Welch, director of the fisheries council of Canada.

"I suggest the government get out of pork," replied Mr. Welch.

Well, it sounds as though we were on the pig's back, but I do not approve of it.

I am not going into the matter very far but the minister knows that Newfoundland is approaching a very new program in fisheries. I am not going to go into the massive Walsh report that the minister has referred to except to say that I think it is a very valuable report that is going to be implemented, I am sure, by the minister and the premier of Newfoundland. Again, though probably I do not see eye to eye with the premier on this matter, I want to read to the minister this quotation from a speech by the premier on January 3, 1953, as reported by the Evening Telegram of that date. The premier is talking of the new fisheries program and he says:

Of course this program will not, will most definitely not be carried out in a month or a year. If it could be carried out in a year it hardly would be worth talking about. What we want is a program that will need years and years to be carried out. Because, mark my words, what we are tackling when we tackle the fishery, is a problem that is very, very old: it was old when I was a boy; it was old when the oldest living fisherman was a boy. It always was a trouble, and that trouble is certainly not going to be cured all of a sudden.

It will take years, and it will take millions and millions of dollars.

Some of those millions will come from the Newfoundland government, some I hope will come from the Canadian government, and is it too much to hope that some will come from the Newfoundland fish trade?

I merely want to echo the words of the premier and say that I do hope, since the

Supply-Fisheries

minister has been down there and seen the problem and since his parliamentary assistant knows the problem pretty well, that we will all get together and implement this program as it should be implemented.