Mr. Ferguson:

There comes a time in every man's life when he has got enough and says, "So far I will go and no further". But here we find a man who takes the "Rule, Britannia" out of the navy, the crown off the royal flying corps badges and forms a new regiment, calls it the guards and tries to justify his stand by saying, "We have put in one common cauldron some Canadian regiments". But he has by-passed regiments that are now in the permanent forces of Canada and has put the famous rifle regiments at the bottom of the list of Canadian regiments. The Minister of National Defence, supported by you Liberals, you Canadians, has done it.

Oh, oh.

Mr. Ferguson:

All right. It will never be said that Julian Ferguson would ever be so subservient to any party that he would sink into that kind of mire, thank God.

Mr. Kirk (Aniigonish-Guysborough):

I

object strongly to the attack by the hon. member for Simcoe North on the senior member for Halifax whose father is now lying in Flanders fields and has lain there since world war I.

Mr. Ferguson:

The father handed on a torch which he should now be carrying. I am not standing on my father's glory. I am standing on the glory of the men who died, including his father for whom I have every regard.

The Chairman:

Order.

Mr. Ferguson:

Not only his father. Don't you try to defend him, Mister.

The Chairman:

Shall we pass on to the reserve force?

Mr. Pearkes:

Before we deal with the question of the reserve force I should like to say that the units of the reserve forces have contributed to the various units of the active forces. There has been a good deal of

difficulty in raising the units for the new active forces, and in order not to emphasize too much the decision which had to be made as to the order of seniority of the various units of the forces I think a fair effort was made by the personnel of the defence department to try to give credit to the many units which have a long record in the Canadian army. Rather than single out two or three units in order to perpetuate them in the active force, the decision was made to create this new regiment of guards. I do not quite know how a different decision could have been reached had the desire been to give credit to the great many units of the reserve army. I am not going to say any more about that matter. Coming to the question of the reserve army-

Mr. Macdonnell:

May I interrupt the hon. member for a moment? I have one question respecting the active army. May I ask it now, or will it be understood that I can ask it later?

Mr. Pearkes:

All right.

Mr. Macdonnell:

What forces of the Canadian army are stationed in the Yukon? What is their role, what is their equipment and what is the estimated cost of maintaining them for a year?

Mr. Claxion:

There are two sets of activities centred in the Yukon. The first is the part played mostly by the Royal Canadian Engineers in the maintenance and Qperation of the northwest highway system. The second is the operation of the Northwest Territories and Yukon telegraph system. The first has been carried on since the highway was handed over to the Royal Canadian Engineers in 1946, I believe. While we do not keep the accounts segregated that way any longer, my recollection is that the cost of maintenance and operation of the highway system is about $6 million a year. That would cover about 1,200 miles and it covers a good deal of replacement of capital installations such as bridges, culverts and the like on a more permanent basis. We are doing a steady program of replacement.

The Northwest Territories and Yukon telegraph system supplies all the telecommunication services, civilian and military, in the Northwest Territories and the Yukon. Speaking again from memory, I believe there are twenty-one stations in the Yukon and the Northwest Territories. They carry all the military traffic, all the government service and most of the commercial. My recollection would be that the amount of revenue they take from handling commercial traffic varies but averages approximately $500,000 a year.

They handle a good many hundred thousand messages for the armed forces, weather stations and other government services, so that these are two very considerable operations, one by the engineers and the other by the signals.

Mr. Macdonnell:

Would I be correct in summarizing what the minister has said in this way, that the units there are purely technical, engineers and signals, and that their duties are to maintain roads and communications? That tells the whole story of the troops located there, does it?

Mr. Claxton:

Yes, if the hon. member is talking about the army only. There are of course some elements of Canadian Rangers and some reserve force elements, but I am talking about the active force army.

Mr. Macdonnell:

I think the figure the minister gave for the road was for the upkeep on the road. Is that intended to cover also the cost of these units or can he segregate the cost of these units? That is the figure I seek, not the maintenance of the road but the expense of the units themselves.

Mr. Claxton:

Pay and allowances for the Northwest Territories and Yukon road system for 1953-54 amounted to $572,000, and for 1954-55 they are $581,000. A total of seven officers and 178 men are engaged in this operation. With respect to the northwest telegraph system the cash estimate was less than I said because it does not include some capital expenditures. This is just pay and allowances. For 1953-54 the pay and allowances were $1,215,000, and for 1954-55, $1,550,000. There is a total of 60 officers, 400 men and 322 civilians.

Mr. Macdonnell:

Would the minister give us the rank of the commanding officer?

Mr. Claxton:

Brigadier.

Mr. Macdonnell:

What is the relationship of this to the Department of Public Works? There was a report that the Department of Public Works had taken over the highway and there seemed to be some misunderstanding about it.