Sabotage.

Mr. Brown (Essex West):

He scuttled that conference.

Mr. Drew:

It is difficult within parliamentary rules to give an appropriate answer to the statement that has been made, but may I simply say that it is a most remarkable example of superlative inexactitude. I am compelled now, Mr. Speaker, to deal with this Liberal mythology. There was no rejection of the proposals, and the minister knows it.

Who walked out?

Mr. Drew:

I hear one of the Liberals to my right shouting "who walked out?" This is the most illuminating thing I have seen, the exposure by the Liberals themselves of the extent to which they have swallowed their own guff.

Mr. Rowe:

Half of them do not know and the other half will not believe themselves.

Mr. Drew:

They are confusing another occasion. The walk-out was in 1941 when the Liberal premier of Ontario walked out.

Oh, oh.

Mr. Rowe:

You have started something.

Rewriting history.

Mr. Drew:

Someone mentions rewriting history. I know the Minister of Finance (Mr. Harris) does not like that, and for that reason I believe he will welcome the corrections that are being made this afternoon. He wants the history to be straight and I want it to be straight. In answer to the statement made by the Minister of Justice, I am now compelled to take sufficient time to make the record clear.

Mr. Rowe:

He laughs best who laughs last.

Mr. Pickersgill:

That will take a long time.

Mr. Drew:

The dominion-provincial conference of 1945-46 met on August 6, 1945. On that occasion there was a gratifying atmosphere of good will. If some hon. members, including the Minister of Justice, have been misled by this expensive propaganda let them go back and read the report of the proceedings on that occasion. They will find that the conference adjourned in August to meet again in November for the purpose of continuing the discussions. A statement was issued to the press by the then prime minister of Canada expressing great gratification with the results that had flowed from the conference up to that time. Then the conference met again on November 26, 1945, as a coordinating committee, and we discussed certain facts. We discussed the very obvious fact that the dominion government did not have the supporting information upon which to proceed with these proposals. In that regard I cannot help recalling something else that was said by the Prime Minister last Friday. As recorded at page 3287 of Hansard of last Friday the Prime Minister, referring to the communique issued following the conference of last week, said:

The communique indicates that there was a discussion of-I will not say "offer" or "proposal" of the federal government because those words were objected to by others attending on the ground that there was nothing complete that could be regarded as an "offer" or as a "proposal"-a suggestion that I put before the meeting on the first day when it was an open public meeting.

May I emphasize these words, Mr. Speaker, because they have such a reminiscent sound in relation to that earlier conference. These are the words of the Prime Minister of last Friday:

It was quite evident, and no one questioned it, that we did not have accurate information that would permit of the establishment of an exact formula.

We have been pressing in this house for more than two years for an examination of the whole problem, for consultation with the provinces, for the taking of steps to deal with unemployment, and yet only last week we were told by the Prime Minister that they do not have the facts. It was not because they did not have plenty of help to get the facts for them. Not only the dominion bureau of statistics but every department has some form of research branch of its own, some more elaborate than others, and these research branches were available to them. But I should like hon. members to recall, and with deference may I say particularly hon. members opposite, that during all these discussions when we have urged action the Prime Minister remained silent in this house in regard to unemployment. The government gave no indication to us it was going to do

The Budget-Mr. Drew anything about it. Then, on the very eve of this new dominion-provincial conference, proposals were given to the press with the usual fanfare to indicate that this beneficent government was going to do great things for unemployment. Now we find from the statement of the Prime Minister that those assurances were given without any supporting information. Mr. Speaker, that is reckless and irresponsible.

They withdrew from the proposals put forward in 1945. They put other proposals forward and they did not have the facts. It was just something to catch the eye of the people of Canada through the press and over the radio as this conference met. They did not have anything to put before that conference last week-not a thing. As the Prime Minister has told us, those who were there even objected to these being called proposals, and I should think very wisely in view of what we have now heard. But, Mr. Speaker, these proposals, and they were proposals, were put forward as a basis for discussion. I can only hope that on this occasion the government really intends to try to make this conference reach some positive conclusion. What I have just said has a direct bearing on what occurred in 1945 and in 1946.

In the autumn of 1945, it became quite clear that the government, this same government, did not have the facts. An economic committee, therefore, was set up to examine the facts. The committee was made up of government experts from every one of the governments, including the dominion government. Then, following that we all met again on January 28, 1946. Again, this was a meeting of the co-ordinating committee but it brought together the Prime Minister of Canada, the premiers of the provinces, a number of their ministers and the staff that was needed for that purpose.

Then, on a later occasion we had a plenary conference which met on April 29, 1946. I had no intention of going into this detail about this conference but when the Minister of Justice (Mr. Garson), who was there, says that these proposals were refused he is either very forgetful or very careless of his statements. The fact remains that we were discussing these matters right up to the adjournment on May 3, 1946, on the basis that we were going to meet again to consider all the proposals. Let me read from the last page of the Hansard record of this conference, page 624. I am going to start quoting from the statement of Mr. Ilsley, who was then minister of finance. After his opening remarks he had this to say, and I shall continue to read to the end of the Hansard record which is on the same page. I am quoting now from Mr. Ilsley, and I ask

The Budget-Mr. Drew hon. members and particularly hon. members opposite who have heard this sort of propaganda, which is the sort of inaccurate misrepresentation to which we have listened today, to listen to the words that were actually used and see whether or not they are susceptible of the suggestion that this meeting was still not a continuing meeting.

Mr. Ilsley said:

It is evident to me that it would be undesirable to indicate any particular date to which this conference should be adjourned. It seems to me that it is the duty of the government-

That is the government of Canada.

-to give consideration to the various proposals and suggestions which have been put forward. The premier of Ontario suggested, as I understand it, that we alter the basis of the proposed agreement; and Mr. Macdonald also made some changes that might possibly be made. Mr. Douglas on the other hand expressed a point of view in many respects opposite to that of Mr. Macdonald; he suggested a splitting of the differences, or compromise, between the Ontario position and the dominion position. He said, rather soundly I think, that he did not expect his suggestion to be accepted, at least this afternoon; but he wanted to place it on record for consideration.

We have on the record what has been said by the various premiers. It is now our duty-

These are Mr. Ilsley's words.

It is now our duty to give consideration to the situation as it has developed, and announce our decision in due course as to the procedure that should be followed to deal with that situation. I do not think we can do anything beyond that at the present time.

As the Prime Minister reminds me, I must proceed at once with the preparation of the budget. It is not possible for me to wait until an agreement is reached, and I will have to prepare the budget in the light of the fact that no agreement has been reached. In the meantime my suggestion is that we should adjourn sine die, and that the government take into consideration the points of view that have been expressed here today, and then arrive at a decision as to the procedure to follow and the position to take.

Mr. Macdonald:

Mr. Chairman, I take it that

Mr. Ilsley is not suggesting that there will not be another conference. The premier of Quebec who is not here said he would come back at any time.

Hear, hear.

Mr. Drew:

Listen to the laughter of those who swallowed this propaganda. The premier of Quebec was not there at that time, but he had indicated he would be back at any time to discuss these matters. I am continuing Mr. Ilsley's remarks.

Were you there?

Mr. Drew:

That merely indicates the complete ignorance of those who have been applauding the government for its mistakes. One of the hon. members opposite asked if I was there. I was not only there, but I was sitting there right to the very end. If the hon. member wants to read the text he will be able to see that on the page before I had

TMr. Drew.]

been indicating the urgency of dealing with these problems just as soon as possible.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I finish quoting that statement which was interrupted.

Mr. Mackenzie King:

Gentlemen, it has been moved that the conference adjourn sine die. All those in favour of the motion will please say, "aye".

Some Premiers: Aye.