Mr. Palleli:

Within 14 miles of my home town; you had better familiarize yourself with what is going on in this country.

Mr. Dickey:

Put the name on the record.

Mr. Palleli:

Anybody who knows anything about rolling pipe knows that a 34-inch pipe

[Mr. Pallett.l

is the fatherless son type of pipe. It goes 18-inch, 24 and 30. I wonder if somebody is stuck with some steel somewhere and wants to get rid of it? I do not know.

Mr. Howe (Pori Arihur):

Mr. Chairman, my hon. friend claims to know everything. He said he could tell me the name of a Canadian outfit that makes 34-inch pipe.

Name the company.

Mr. Palleli:

I think it is only fair that we should have a little tit for tat and if the minister will answer my questions first, I will answer his.

Mr. Dickey:

Welcher.

Mr. Palleli:

What is the full cost of running this pipe line? Do you know what the estimated cost is? How much is it going to cost to operate it? What is the cost of operation from Alberta to Winnipeg and then on? We do not know. Let us have the answer. We may have to take over this pipe line and we want to know something about running it.

Mr. Langlois (Gaspe):

Who wrote that for you?

Mr. Palleli:

Well, my friend, I can read it, which is probably more than you can do. There is one question that I think affects pretty well every Canadian, and it should be answered. Why is money being made available to this unnamed company at 5 per cent when national housing loans to Canadians are at 5i per cent and the industrial development bank interest rate to Canadian companies is not anywhere near 5 per cent and Canadian money going through the Canadian farm loan board to Canadian farmers is only guaranteed at 5 per cent up to the end of this year? The suggestion is that it will be higher. Why do we lend money to Americans at a lower rate of interest than we are prepared to lend it to Canadians? I might also add that the percentage of the loan is higher. A 90 per cent percentage loan is higher than any National Housing Act loan on the books. The government will not authorize loans to Canadians higher than 60 per cent of the over-all National Housing Act loan.

Mr. Winters:

The loans to limited dividend companies are 90 per cent.

Mr. Fleming:

On your evaluation.

Mr. Pallet!: Since the Minister of Public Works deigned to interject, what about the rate of interest on those loans?

What terms?

Mr. Winters:

Three and three-quarters per cent, Mr. Chairman.

when this pipe line is constructed to Winnipeg, it is not going to be taken down to Emerson? What assurance is before the house?

That is not what

McMahon wants.

Mr. Pallell:

Never mind what McMahon wants. Have we unqualified assurance that when this pipe line comes to Winnipeg, before it goes to Emerson, it will come across into Ontario and Quebec? I have not seen it. I have read Hansard from the beginning and it is not there. There is no assurance.

Nonsense.

Mr. Pallet!: "Nonsense", the man says. That is the only speech he has made in this debate.

Mr. Hosking:

The same as yours.

Mr. Pallet!: I asked the minister last Friday on the orders of the day, what about atomic energy. I asked when is atomic energy going to be ready for the development of electrical energy. He did not know, he said.

Mr. MacDougall:

No, do you know, John?

Mr. Pallell:

He did not know. If I were the Minister of Trade and Commerce in charge of the resources of which he is in charge, I would know and I would get up and tell the house.