Mr. Speaker:

Our hours of sitting for the balance of the present session have been changed by some special orders, and it might be of assistance to hon. members if I were to recite the new sitting hours established by the special orders that have been adopted and those that have not been changed and still remain in effect according to present standing orders.

Pursuant to standing orders and to special orders made on March 27 and March 30 last, the hours of sitting of the house for the balance of the present session, unless otherwise provided at a later date, will be as follows: Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., 2.30 p.m. to 6 p.m., 8 p.m. to 10 p.m.; Wednesday, 2.30 p.m. to 6 p.m., 8 p.m. to 10 p.m., Friday and Saturday, 11 a.m. to 1 p.m., 2.30 p.m. to 6 p.m. I thought this would help hon. members and others who are interested in our proceedings.

Right Hon. J. G. Gardiner (Minister of Agriculture):

Mr. Speaker, before motions are proceeded with I should like to raise a question of privilege. I do this because I understand that by the rules the speech which was made yesterday while I was not in the house is now in the position that I cannot reply to it because we have voted on the question which was then before the house.

Hence on a question of privilege I should like to point out that the hon. member for Moose Mountain (Mr. McCullough), when I was out meeting a delegation on potatoes yesterday, made some rather serious charges involving me personally and a livestock breeder in Alberta named P. J. Rock.

The first statement I wish to refer to was that P. J. Rock is "perhaps one of the greatest Liberal supporters in the province of Alberta." When I was first introduced to P. J. Rock- and it is now about 20 years ago, when I was attending the Royal at Toronto-a previous minister of agriculture in the province of Alberta introduced me after saying this: "This gentleman is one of the best livestock breeders in Canada but he is not a supporter of our party". As a result of that introduction I have never discussed politics with P. J. Rock. I have always confined myself to discussing livestock matters and ideas with him; and on each occasion that I have been with him I have been at the Toronto Royal or the Calgary Stampede, and there has always been a sufficient number of people about of all political parties so it was not a very good opportunity to discuss politics.

The other two occasions on which I have met Mr. Rock or have been with him are these. One occasion was when the livestock people asked me to speak at a livestock judging contest which was being held at Mr. Rock's farm about 20 years ago. I have forgotten the exact date, but it was shortly after I became minister. The only other time was in Calgary a year ago at a meeting at the exhibition grounds.

This further statement also comes from his speech made yesterday: Rumours persist that (a) some of these sheep have not been destroyed; (b) substitutions have been made; (c) some sheep were moved from P. J. Rock's flock to a farm in Manitoba. Then the hon. member said: "I am inclined to believe these rumours." Those are not charges against me. They are charges against Mr. Rock. I submit that it would have been more appropriate for him to have made those charges outside of this house rather than under the protection of this house.

The third statement to which I wish to refer is this: "It is now up to the minister to clear the air."

What I wish to suggest is this. I know I must have the unanimous consent of the house in order to have the suggestion agreed to, so with the unanimous consent of the house I suggest that the committee on agriculture and colonization be convened to meet tomorrow, Wednesday, April 3, at eleven o'clock; that the charges contained in the speech of the

2956 HOUSE OF

Committee on Agriculture and Colonization hon. member for Moose Mountain be submitted to the committee for immediate investigation; that the committee have authority to call and subpoena witnesses and produce papers relating to the charges and to meet from time to time even while the house is in session until the committee is prepared to report. I think it is important that this should be done at once. I would suggest that the committee meet tomorrow at eleven o'clock.

Mr. Stanley Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):

Mr. Speaker, we have no objection to meeting the request for consent that the committee be asked to meet. I wonder if the chief Liberal whip-assuming the committee will meet tomorrow morning-would make a motion to the effect that the name of Mr. Argue be substituted for that of Mr. Johnson (Kindersley) on that committee. I shall be glad to send over the motion in written form.

Mr. W. G. Weir (Portage-Neepawa):

I shall be glad to assent to the suggestion of the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre and move that the name of Mr. Argue be substituted for that of Mr. Johnson (Kindersley) on the standing committee on agriculture and colonization.

Mr. E. G. McCullough (Moose Mountain):

am quite prepared to agree with what the Minister of Agriculture has said. I do feel, though, that it would be much preferable to have a special committee of this house set up with powers to call witnesses, be able to examine the place where these sheep were buried and call-

Oh, oh.

Mr. McCullough (Moose Mountain):

-before it all the people connected with this matter, as well as all memoranda and papers in connection with this whole question of compensation paid to Mr. P. J. Rock. I think then, if the terms of reference of such a special committee were made sufficiently broad, we could get to the bottom of this matter. I should like to see the minister support that sort of committee rather than have the witnesses called before the agriculture committee, of which I am a member.

Mr. Gardiner:

Mr. Speaker, all that is suggested by the member for Moose Mountain will be possible to be done before this committee. The only difference there can be is in personnel. There will be no limitation on persons who can be called. Anyone whom it is suggested should be called will be subpoenaed and brought here. The officials will produce information at once, immediately the committee meets, in order to answer the

questions which were asked in the speech made yesterday by the hon. member for Moose Mountain.

Hon. W. E. Harris (Minister of Finance):

Before you pass by motions, it is quite correct that the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre indicated his assent to the course that had been outlined by the Minister of Agriculture, but I did not hear you, Mr. Speaker, put the motion. I understood you put the motion moved by the chief government whip, but not the motion that these matters should be referred to the agriculture committee by unanimous consent.

Mr. Speaker:

Well, is there unanimous consent to have the matters mentioned by the minister referred to the standing committee on agriculture and colonization? I have the text of the suggestion here:

That the standing committee on agriculture and colonization be convened to meet tomorrow, Wednesday, April 3, at eleven o'clock a.m., and that the charges contained in the speech of the hon. member for Moose Mountain be submitted to the committee for immediate investigation and that the committee have authority to call and subpoena witnesses and produce papers relating to the charges and to meet from time to time even while the house is in session until the committee is prepared to report.

I think all we need to agree to at the moment is that the charges referred to by the minister, and made in a speech in the house yesterday by the hon. member for Moose Mountain, be referred to the standing committee on agriculture and colonization.

Agreed.