Mr. Churchill:
Mr. Speaker, I think that is a thoroughly improper question, in that it asks for details regarding the transaction of
cabinet business. I also object to the hon. member's inference in saying that it purports to have been signed on January 31.
Mr. Tucker:
It appeared to have been
signed on that date.
Mr. Churchill:
That is the date on the order in council, as he can readily see for himself.
Mr. Tucker:
On a question of privilege, Mr. Speaker, I only have a copy of the document before me and I said it appears to have been signed on that date. That is what I said.
Mr. Churchill:
You used the word "purport".
Mr. Tucker:
I did not use the word "purport" with the inference suggested.
Mr. Cardiff:
Half the time you do not know what you say.
Mr. Tucker:
I raise the point for this reason. I think it should be a matter of great interest not only to members on this side of the house but to members on the other side, and I am raising the matter as a question of privilege not only as it affects myself but as it affects the privileges of parliament. Your Honour knows the rule is that when a minister refers to an action by the government embodied in an order in council he must thereupon table that document. The minister was asked yesterday to table the document. It appears to have been signed yesterday. I am asking him if, when he made the announcement, the order in council was signed and if it was why he did not, in accordance with the established rules of parliament, table it yesterday.
Mr. Churchill:
I am sorry the hon. member is so little interested in the investigation of the box car situation which was ignored for so long by the former administration.
Oh, oh.
Mr. Gauthier (Portneuf):
That is the silliest answer ever given here, one of the silliest.
Mr. Speaker:
Order. The hon. member has raised a question of privilege, and I think in fairness the house should hear what the Minister of Trade and Commerce has to say.
Mr. Churchill:
Yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I did not cite the order in council. It was suggested by the hon. member for Winnipeg North Centre that I had so done, but I did not. I made the announcement that Mr. Bracken was going to make an inquiry into box car allocation with regard to the movement of grain in western Canada. The order in council was tabled at the earliest possible moment.
Mr. Knowles (Winnipeg North Centre):
When was it passed?
Answer.
Inquiries of the Ministry
Mr. Speaker:
I do not think the house should enter into a debate on this matter unless there is a motion before it. It seems to me that the matter has been dealt with sufficiently.
Mr. Tucker:
On a question of privilege, how can we make a motion or take any steps to defend the privileges and rights of parliament if the government will not give us any information on the matter? For all we know the order in council was passed when the minister made his statement that the government had decided to appoint Mr. Bracken. The government acts by order in council. Inasmuch as he stated that the government had decided to appoint Mr. Bracken, the order in council must have then been signed, and if it was signed he should have tabled it. If it was not already signed he was stating something that was incorrect, because the government cannot act as a government except by order in council, and in that case he was flouting the house with regard to the matter. It is either one thing or the other. We should be very concerned about upholding the rights of parliament, and so should my hon. friends opposite. We are entitled to information as to whether the minister did contravene a rule of parliament when he made the announcement yesterday.
Oh, oh.
Mr. Speaker:
I take it that the hon. member's question of privilege is that the order in council was not tabled yesterday. I think Hansard is clear as to what happened yesterday, and we do not need to enter into a debate about it. Personally I do not see any question of privilege which requires any further debate, unless some member wishes to found a motion on what has happened.
Mr. Tucker:
.With regard to the matter I raised of whether or not there had been infringement of the privileges and rights of parliament, I understood the Minister of Trade and Commerce (Mr. Churchill) to indicate that it was not well founded because he had not referred to the order in council in making his announcement. I should like to draw the minister's attention to what he said at that time-