February 20, 1961

LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Hon. J. W. Pickersgill (Bonavista-Twillin-gate):

I wonder if the minister would explain his statement, "subject to the usual reservations"?

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

I do not have to explain it; it is well known to the house.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I am rising on a point of order. This phrase "the usual reservations" is, of course, an amendment to the motion, and an amendment to the motion would have to be considered by the house. There does not appear to be anything in this motion that would call for any of the reservations usually made, and if the minister is not prepared to say what is involved, then we are being asked to accept something blindly. We should be either told what the reservation is or the motion should be dealt with as it stands.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

This is not debatable. When the hon. member was sitting here he used the expression many times. He knows full well what is meant by that expression. He is simply putting on an act at the moment. It may be that privileged departmental documents are involved. I do not know what is involved in this motion and I am therefore accepting it subject to the rules and practices of this house.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

The minister has seen fit to make a statement about me personally which is in fact completely untrue. I never used this phrase "subject to the usual reservations". This phrase was not used until the present government came into office. It is an innovation which I suggest is a bad practice, to which I have once or twice before taken exception and to which I take the strongest possible exception now. Either the motion should be put as is or the minister should make a formal amendment.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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PC

Lewis Elston Cardiff (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Cardiff:

Go back through Hansard and you will find plenty of cases.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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LIB
PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

The hon. member takes exception, as a point of order, that in effect the minister proposes a qualification to the order which the house is asked to make, and that in doing so he is proposing an amendment to the motion itself which would have to be proceeded with in the ordinary way.

I think there is some substance to that point of order. We have adopted the practice here of accepting the reservation expressed by a minister and putting the motion subject to that reservation. I think that procedure either implies the unanimous consent of the house-and it is on that basis that I have proceeded in the past-or it implies that the house unanimously accepts the limitation as part of the motion. If hon. members want to go through the full process, I suppose there is a point to be considered. Perhaps the motion might stand today and I will consider the matter and ascertain whether the practice we have been following is, in fact, contrary to our standing orders.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

On the point of order, Mr. Speaker, may I simply say that it is the practice that has been followed ever since I have been in this House of Commons and it had been followed for years prior to that time. The house has, of course, no right to pass an order which is contrary to the practice and the conventions which have been established by it. That is all that was said, namely that we accept this order subject to the usual reservations, whatever they may be in the particular instance of this particular order. There may be no reservations, or there may be reservations. It is impossible to decide that matter until one goes through the whole file. Whether the order is called today or a week from now, the same reservation will be taken.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Speaker:

We have been following this practice, but as the point is taken formally, I shall deal with it on the next occasion when these motions come up for consideration.

Motion stands.

Topic:   ORDERS IN COUNCIL FIXING DUTIES
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CAUSEWAY CONSTRUCTION, P.E.I.-N.B.


Motion No. 51-Mr. Robichaud: For a copy of all correspondence, telegrams, and other documents exchanged from September 1, 1960, to date, between the federal government or any agency or department thereof, with the government of the province of Prince Edward Island, in connection with the construction of the proposed causeway across Northumberland strait to link Prince Edward Island with New Brunswick.


PC

David James Walker (Minister of Public Works; Minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation; Minister responsible for National Capital Commission)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. D. J. Walker (Minister of Public Works):

Mr. Speaker, I shall be very happy to accept this order with the usual reservation; but to save the time of the house and for the information of the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate I may say that the usual reservation is that we are required under the rules of the house or the practice of the house to get the consent of the province. In this case it is the province of Prince Edward Island. Perhaps that statement will satisfy the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate.

Topic:   CAUSEWAY CONSTRUCTION, P.E.I.-N.B.
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PC

Daniel Roland Michener (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

Mr, Speaker:

The minister has indicated that the motion is acceptable, subject to the limitation that the consent of one party to the correspondence, namely the province, be obtained before the order be filed. Subject to that reservation or limitation expressed by the minister, is it the pleasure of the house to adopt the motion?

Topic:   CAUSEWAY CONSTRUCTION, P.E.I.-N.B.
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Motion agreed to.


MUNICIPAL HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, TECK MUNICIPALITY, ONT.


Motion No. 52-Mr. Peters: For a copy of all correspondence, telegrams, and other documents exchanged between the federal government and the council of the municipality of Teck, relating to a proposed municipal housing development.


PC

David James Walker (Minister of Public Works; Minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation; Minister responsible for National Capital Commission)

Progressive Conservative

Hon. D. J. Walker (Minister of Public Works):

Mr. Speaker, this motion is accepted without reservation, because the same practice does not apply to municipalities.

Topic:   MUNICIPAL HOUSING DEVELOPMENT, TECK MUNICIPALITY, ONT.
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Motion agreed to.


FEDERAL BUILDING, KIRKLAND LAKE, ONT.

February 20, 1961