February 21, 1961

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the house leader if in announcing the business for tomorrow he will be good enough to state that he will bring in the estimates of the Department of Labour which were called just a moment ago?

Topic:   BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

Mr. Speaker, as has already been indicated I believe, tomorrow the house will deal first with the bill relating to the Mattagami railway which I understand has been reported back from the committee although it is not on today's order paper. If that is the case, it will be the first item dealt with tomorrow. The second item will be No. 9 on today's order paper, the setting up of a sessional committee on railways, air lines and shipping. Having concluded those two items, we will then deal with item No. 8 on today's order paper, the resolution to increase the number of members of the board

of directors of Canadian National Railways from seven to 12. That is the business for tomorrow.

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

May I ask the acting house leader whether he will give us the assurance that the estimates of the Department of Labour will be called on Thursday or Friday, as soon as we dispose of these three items?

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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

I cannot give any such assurance. In fact, I would inform the hon. member for Laurier and the house that the intention is to deal on Thursday with the estimates of the Department of Citizenship and Immigration including all facets of that department, all matters for which the minister may be responsible such as the national gallery, the film board, the archives and so on. When these are completed on Thursday we will then start to deal with the estimates of the Department of Agriculture and will continue with the estimates of that department on Friday.

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

In view of the discussion that has taken place earlier, and I refer particularly to that which took place on February 15 and the questions and answers that were given then, may I ask the acting house leader why the government will not call the estimates of the Department of Labour so that we can discuss certain matters that come under that department?

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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

There was a discussion on February 15 in which reference was made to the calling of the Department of Labour. At that time the Prime Minister said:

Business of the House

-if the house so wills, among the estimates to be called will be those of the Department of Labour.

Monday came and we had a supply motion but the question of labour was not dealt with directly. No promise or suggestion of a promise was made by the Prime Minister, and we are proceeding with the estimates of the departments as I have outlined.

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

In view of what was said and what the minister has read, I wonder why he will not give us the opportunity to discuss the estimates of the Department of Labour?

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PC

George Clyde Nowlan (Minister of National Revenue)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Nowlan:

The Department of Labour was called tonight. There was an opportunity to discuss labour matters in the last two days, and it is considered to be in the interests of the administration of the business of the house and in the public interest to proceed with the departments I have outlined.

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LIB

Lionel Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

Mr. Chevrier:

I do not want to prolong this unduly but we did not have an opportunity to deal with this matter as we would if the estimates were called, because when they are called the minister is before the committee with his officials and we then have an opportunity to put questions and get answers which we could not do on a motion to go into supply. That is the only reason I was pleading with the minister to call them.

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It being six minutes after ten o'clock the house adjourned, without question put, pursuant to standing order.



Questions


ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS


The following answers, deposited with the Clerk of the house, are printed in the official report of debates pursuant to standing order 39:


NON-OPERATING EMPLOYEES, C.N.R.

PC

Mr. White (Government Whip in the Senate)

Progressive Conservative

1. How many non-operating employees were with the Canadian National Railways as of January 1, 1950?

2. Of this number, how many were engaged in a supervisory capacity?

3. How many non-operating employees were with the Canadian National Railways as of January 1, 1960?

4. Of this number, how many were engaged in a supervisory capacity?

Answer by: Hon. Leon Balcer (Minister of

Transport):

The management of the Canadian National Railways advise as follows:

1. Monthly data for 1950 are incomplete, and for this period annual figures have been substituted. Comparable annual data for I960 will not be available for another month but the average for the first 11 months of 1960 will permit a reasonable comparison to be made. The average number of non-operating employees for the year 1950 and for the first 11 months of 1960 were as follows:

Year 1950, 75,114; average, Jan.-Nov. 1960, 67,671.

2. Since many supervisory personnel have jurisdiction over other employee groups as well as the non-operating group, it is not possible to identify separately those who have supervisory jurisdiction only over non-operating employees. The total number of supervisory personnel (union and non-union) on the payroll was as follows:

Year, 1950, 8,669; average, Jan.-Nov. 1960, 9,839.

These figures do not include those supervisory personnel who are not separately identified as such in the Canadian classification of railway employees in accordance with which personnel statistics are maintained. The numbers involved, however, are relatively small and are omitted in each of the three periods covered, thereby providing some measure of consistency to the data to permit comparability.

3. Answered by No. 1.

4. Answered by No. 2.

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Subtopic:   NON-OPERATING EMPLOYEES, C.N.R.
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C.N.R. PERSONNEL

LIB

Mr. Chevrier (Official Opposition House Leader; Liberal Party House Leader)

Liberal

1. What was the number of non-operating employees of the Canadian National Railways in January, 1939, January, 1942, and 1960?

2. What was the number of supervisory officers engaged in supervision of these employees in 1939, 1942 and 1960?

3. What was the total number of supervisory officers on the payroll in 1939, 1942 and 1960?

4. How many non-scheduled employees (nonsupervisory) were there in 1939, 1942 and 1960?

5. How many "methods" employees are currently employed by the company?

Answer by: Hon. Leon Balcer (Minister of

Transport):

The management of the Canadian National Railways advise as follows:

1. Monthly data for 1939 and 1942 are incomplete, and for these periods annual figures have been substituted. Comparable annual data for 1960 will not be available for another month but the average for the first 11 months of 1960 will permit a reasonable comparison to be made. The average numbers of non-operating employees for the years 1939 and 1942 and for the first 11 months of 1960 were as follows:

Year, 1939, 51,146; year, 1942, 60,604; average Jan.-Nov. 1960, 67,671.

2. Since many supervisory personnel have jurisdiction over other employee groups as well as the non-operating group, it is not possible to identify separately those who have supervisory jurisdiction only over non-operating employees.

3. The total number of supervisory personnel (union and non-union) on the payroll was as follows:

Year, 1939, 6,972; year, 1942, 7,394; average Jan.-Nov. 1960, 9,839.

These figures do not include those supervisory personnel who are not separately identified as such in the Canadian classification of railway employees in accordance with which personnel statistics are maintained. The numbers involved, however, are relatively small and are omitted in each of the three periods covered, thereby providing some measure of consistency to the data to permit comparability.

4. As pointed out in answer to question No. 3, personnel statistics are maintained in accordance with the Canadian classification of railway employees and do not permit separate identification of non-scheduled employees (non-supervisory). In addition, since company check-off of union dues commenced on April 1, 1953, prior separate identification of non-scheduled employees as opposed to scheduled employees was not possible.

5. As at September 1960, there were 175 "methods" employees employed by the Canadian National Railways on Canadian lines. These include work study analysts, methods analysts, machine analysts and material handling analysts.

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Subtopic:   C.N.R. PERSONNEL
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INDIAN BAND TRUST ACCOUNTS

LIB

Mr. Howard

Liberal

1. What is the amount of money held in trust for Indian bands under (a) capital account, and (b) revenue account?

2. Is any of this money invested in securities, and, if so, how much, and in what securities?

3. Have any changes been made in such securities since January 1, 1955, and, if so, (a) what specific

Questions

changes? (b) have any losses been incurred, and, if so, what losses, and on what dates?

Answer by: Hon. Ellen L. Fairclough (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration):

1. (a) $23,802,924.84, (b) $3,550,910.02, (as of January 31, 1961).

2. No.

3. Not applicable.

90205-6-146

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Subtopic:   INDIAN BAND TRUST ACCOUNTS
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February 21, 1961