March 29, 1962

PC

Jacques Flynn (Minister of Mines and Technical Surveys)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Flynn:

If Your Honour will permit me I will remind you that it had to do with the rule of relevancy, but as the hon. member for Laurier was permitted to revive the whole debate I understand, of course, that Your Honour might have forgotten what the point of order was.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

Mr. Chairman, with your permission I should like to take advantage of the time available to discuss a matter of great concern to the Canadian people, particularly the people of British Columbia and more particularly the constituents I have the honour to represent, namely, the Columbia river treaty. I think we are justified in doing so under the rules because during recent weeks and months we had read of discussions and differences between the federal government and the government of British Columbia. Members of this house are quite uncertain as to the direction in which matters are proceeding.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

John Ferguson Browne

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (SI. John's West):

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Surely you are not going to interfere. Surely members of this house have some rights.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

William Joseph Browne (Solicitor General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (St. John's West):

The hon.

member spoke for about half an hour and he should give someone else a chance to say something.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

Closure. Totalitarianism.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

William Joseph Browne (Solicitor General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (St. John's West):

Surely we are as much entitled to raise a point of order as the hon. member. The point I should like to make, Mr. Chairman, is that your predecessor in the chair a few moments ago read a citation from May, page 738, which said that if the amount of the estimate to be considered is comparatively small-I do not know what the hon. member for Bonavista-Twillingate would say about that; I think I overheard him say it was three or four million dollars-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

For external affairs, $4 million.

Supply-External Affairs

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

John Ferguson Browne

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (Si. John's West):

The total amount of these estimates for 1961-62 is $93 million and the proportion is three or four million dollars to $93 million. Would the chairman think that would justify embarking upon a discussion of the Columbia river project at this stage of the supplementary estimates or should the hon. member not be confined to asking questions regarding the various items that are to be considered tonight? There is an item of $225,000 for departmental administration. Surely that does not justify hon. members embarking upon all sorts of questions having to do with policy.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

Does the hon. member not think $4 million is a lot of money?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

William Joseph Browne (Solicitor General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (St. John's West):

It is a great deal of money in my books.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

Paul Joseph James Martin

Liberal

Mr. Martin (Essex East):

You belittled it. "What's $4 million", you said.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

William Joseph Browne (Solicitor General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (St. John's West):

No, I did not

say that.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

Robert Matthew Turnbull McDonald

Progressive Conservative

Mr. McDonald (Hamilton South):

We do not

have a Mr. Howe over here.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

William Joseph Browne (Solicitor General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Browne (St. John's West):

I am referring to what is said in May.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

I should like to say a word on the point of order that the distinguished Solicitor General has raised. It is true that the item for departmental administration is only $225,000 but an extra $4 million is being asked for the Department of External Affairs in these supplementary estimates-

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

Thomas Miller Bell (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada)

Progressive Conservative

Mr. Bell (Carleion):

Why don't you discuss it then?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
LIB

John Whitney Pickersgill

Liberal

Mr. Pickersgill:

-which is a very considerable fraction of the total amount voted for this department. It seems to me that it is not an insignificant amount in the eyes of the Canadian people, however insignificant it may seem to the Solicitor General and to the Minister of Finance and his parliamentary secretary. Moreover, even $225,000 is the cost of restoring Arizona Charlie's and that is a large amount of money.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
PC

Paul Raymond Martineau (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Progressive Conservative

The Chairman:

On the point of order, I would call on the hon. member for Kootenay West and I will listen to what he has to say. If he gets too far from the realm of relevancy I will be able to remind him.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink
NDP

Herbert Wilfred Herridge

New Democratic Party

Mr. Herridge:

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will stay strictly within a subject that comes under the administration of the Department of External Affairs. Let me say to the Solicitor General, who used his best efforts to try to stop me speaking for my constituents, that not only am I speaking for the party I have the honour to represent

Supply-External Affairs but I am also speaking for a large number of people who support his party and a large number who support the Liberal party who have asked me to take the first opportunity available in the house to place before it certain information with respect to this development from the local point of view and certain information with respect to the engineering aspects of the Columbia river treaty. If I am denied this opportunity now I will have to go home and say that I had closure applied to me by a member of the cabinet.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE PRODUCTION
Subtopic:   DEPARTMENT OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS
Permalink

March 29, 1962