Hon. Arthur Laing (Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development):

Mr. Speaker, I want to assure the hon. member that it is not my responsibility to convene the committee or set it up. I am quite certain that is not my responsibility. The idea of visiting Indian reserves originated, it seems to me, in the mind of the hon. member for Skeena (Mr. Howard), and I think he accompanied the committee on the visit to three or four reserves that did take place. There was the thought in mind that the committee would visit some western reserves as well. However, the season became late and the weather got bad, and I do not think many members of the committee wanted to undertake a second tour of Indian reserves.

The hon. member in drawing this matter to the attention of the Minister of National Health and Welfare (Mr. MacEachen) used these words:

In view of growing problems affecting our native Canadians and the long delay in dealing with them-

I am going to deal with the hon. member himself. I want to tell him that the budget on Indian affairs today, in education alone, is $8 million more than the total Indian affairs budget when he was a minister of the government, and the general physical qualities of the reserves today, as well as the entire attitude of management of Indian affairs, are totally unrecognizable from what they were five years ago.

This last year we have built 770 houses on Indian reserves, and we are going to build 2,000 this coming year. We put electricity into 2,200 houses that never had it before. We have put in sewage and water on 48 reserves and have built 450 miles of roads. These changes have been made as the result of parliament giving my department the money to

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Proceedings on Adjournment Motion undertake them, and I appreciate the attitude of members of parliament, but I deplore this constant going round and saying, "Lo, the poor Indian".

I want to tell the hon. member that among Indians today there is a tremendous ferment going on, and many young Indians are rapidly coming to take leadership in Indian communities.

Mr. Dinsdale:

There is no other better leadership.

Mr. Laing:

And so it should be. I think it is time this was encouraged instead of saying, as the hon. member said, that we should put in a skating rink-

Mr. Dinsdale:

It is the Indians who want to put it in.

Mr. Laing:

No, the Indians don't want to put it in-

Mr. Dinsdale:

They have got $25,000.

Mr. Laing:

They want us to put it in. We have put $20,000, $40,000 and $80,000 into such projects in the past. We have now come to the point where we have got to say that those Indians in this country who are capable of carrying themselves, and who are able to manage, should have the right to do this instead of getting it from us. But instead we are going around and saying to the individual Indian, "You should be independent," and at the same time we are going around and saying, "You should have more money from us". We cannot have it both ways.

Among Canadian Indians today there is a tremendous improvement taking place. There are many young Indian leaders coming along, and the situation is not at all as represented by the hon. member. If the standing committee wants to see other reserves I would be very happy to see it set up and visit them. We are making worth-while developments and progress in our program, and if the committee wishes to inspect and participate in that program so much the better.

[DOT] (10:40 p.m.)

Mrs. Grace Maclnnis (Vancouver-Kings-way):

Mr. Speaker, almost a week ago I raised a question which I wish to discuss for a few moments tonight. I drew to the attention of the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs the fact that two dairies in

March 26, 1968

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Proceedings on Adjournment Motion Toronto stated they were raising the price of milk by two cents a quart. Two cents a quart may not seem like a great deal of money, but it is only one more item in the steadily rising cost of living which is bearing very heavily on the people of low income in this country, and which again is making it more difficult for the people of low and moderate means to provide the kind of diet they should provide for their families.

Milk is a vital component in a good diet. Price increases of this nature are contagious. The fact that two dairies in Toronto have already raised their price now by two cents a quart has established a pattern for other dairies across the country. This means that there is a fresh layer of price increases in a very vital area which affects the diet of the Canadian people. This is also a very serious situation from the point of view of the farmers. I learned from the Department of Agriculture that a comparison of two recent periods, 1955-57 and 1962-64, shows that the decline per person in Canada in the consumption of fluid milk is in the order of 65 pounds. That represents roughly 38 quarts of milk. In other words, during the period 1962-64, the average Canadian drank roughly 38 quarts of milk less than in the period 1955-57.

This of course reflects from the fact that the price of milk had increased and people were using instead substitutes like powdered milk at that time. Now there are other milk substitutes on the market. The farmers' markets are falling off. As milk substitutes come in this tendency accelerates. I am sorry the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs is not here this evening, because I would like him to hear this. I believe it is up to his department to provide some form of protection for the consumers against this type of price increase.

When speaking the other evening I noted that the minister said the Liberal party must set up a hotline in order to keep in touch with the public. I feel that in his department the minister has found, not a hotline but a hot potato, and understandably he is anxious to drop it in favour of the prime ministership. Should he succeed I would not be surprised if he should find that he has jumped from the frying pan into the fire.

If the minister really wishes to be prime minister surely the best recommendation he could have would be success in his position as minister of the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs. If he cannot prove himself in dealing with the matter of the rise in the

price of milk-if he cannot prove that he can do something to protect the consumer-then I believe he has a very dubious claim to becoming prime minister. I believe he has two opportunities to prove his capacity before the leadership convention. One would be to bring forward Bill No. C-190 before we adjourn, and thus take action in some measure to bring down the price of drugs. The other is that he could take some measures to protect the consumers from these price increases in the cost of milk. He could begin by establishing a prices review board to investigate the price of milk.

I am well aware that the jurisdiction over prices is divided between the provincial and federal authorities. I am also aware that up until this time the government has adopted the attitute that it can do nothing about prices until or unless a dire emergency such as war arises. I suggest that peace has its dire emergencies and that one of these is the level to which prices have now risen, because people in the very low income groups are becoming more and more desperate and this desperation is beginning to become apparent higher up the income scale.

This matter of the price of milk is in itself a relatively small thing to most Canadians. It may have only a nuisance value. However, to hundreds of Canadians on low income this is a very serious thing. It is also very serious to the farmers of this country because the net result of this price rise does not do them any good. They do not receive the bulk of the increase.

I asked a supplementary question of the minister as to whether he would investigate to find out how much the farmer would get out of this price increase. Again there was no response to that question. In the long run, the farmer's market is decreasing across Canada simply because the people cannot afford to pay this price for milk. They cannot afford this price because of the cost of this wasteful and extravagant distribution system which accounts for the bulk of the increased cost. The minister of the department of consumer affairs should take this first step by establishing a board to look into these increases in cost, in order that the people will know who received the benefit of such increases.

Mr. Ovide Laflamme (Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs):

Mr. Speaker, I shall reply briefly to the remarks of the hon. member. I know that on March 21 last, the hon. member put a

March 26. 1968 COMMONS

question to the hon. Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Turner) to which a reply was given, as shown on page 7883 of Hansard, but, obviously, the reply did not satisfy the hon. member.

I should like to point out to the hon. member that one would certainly err in believing that it is the duty of the Department of Consumer and Corporate Affairs to make a full inquiry each time the price of consumer goods goes up. If that is what she thinks, then she is mistaken as to the prime objectives of that department.

When she speaks of a dairy problem-milk is obviously essential to health, as everyone knows-she must recognize that the present government, in the last two years, has spent over $120 million in public funds, on the one hand, to encourage the dairy industry and help the farmers and, on the other hand, to lighten the burden of consumers generally by favouring a greater consumption of that essential health product.

On the other hand, when the hon. member claims that the minister does not seem to worry about fluctuations in prices, I must remind her of the speech she made on second reading of Bill No. C-190 when she stated that it was one of the most important pieces of legislation ever introduced in the house. As announced this afternoon by the Prime Minister (Mr. Pearson), that bill will be studied again when the house reconvenes next April 23.

As far as price controls are concerned, I feel-and that was clearly established-that even if the federal government wanted to set up a price control board, that legislation would be challenged in court and would surely be found null and void.

I commend the hon. member for her interest in the matter of prices, but I wish to emphasize to her that she should take into account the causes which led to an increase in

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Proceedings on Adjournment Motion consumer prices: salary increases, federal and provincial tax increases, overall increases of services. Obviously, that situation does not rest with the federal government. I do not think the minister should intervene and set up an inquiry under the Restrictive Trade Practices Act, for such a low increase as 2 cents per quart of milk in the metropolitan Toronto area.

[DOT] (10:50 p.m.)

Motion agreed to and the house adjourned at 10.52 p.m.

[The following items were passed in Committee of Supply this day:]