Mr. HEPBURN:

The discussion has gone far afield, and I intend to trespass on the time of the committee for only a moment or two. I do not want the impression to go abroad that all hon. members on this side of the house are opposed to the Minister of Finance. I do not wish it to go abroad, either, that I am advocating a national policy. I am opposed to this government, and would be equally opposed to a national government. But I think in the present instance the government is taking a step in the right direction. Whether we like it or not there will have to be some measures of retrenchment, because the government of the country costs sums out of all proportion to the capacity of the people to pay. Costs of municipal, provincial and federal governments to-day total something like a billion dollars. The value of Canadian field crops to-day is something like $450,000,000, so that we readily see that it takes more than twice as much than the value of the Canadian field crop to pay for the cost of government. These extreme costs reflect themselves in trade conditions. The world is suffering from overproduction.

Salary Deduction Act

I have no doubt that in the main we will do irreparable damage if we insist in keeping government costs where they are at the present time. So far as I am concerned, I know I have less of this world's goods now than when I entered politics some years ago. However, the penalty I personally have to pay for keeping a Tory government in office is $400 a year. I am willing to make that sacrifice in the anticipation that some time in the near future we will have a Liberal government back in office and again enjoy prosperity.

While we are on this point I should like to assure the government that I would be prepared to support it if it were inclined to make searching inquiries along some lines. Public accounts show that we are paying $9,000 to a lieutenant-governor in Nova Scotia, $10,000 to one in Ontario, and supporting nine in all Canada. We could cut down that expense very considerably. Further, I do not think there is any necessity for 245 members in this House of Commons, and now that when we have an opportunity we should reduce the number regardless of constitutional barriers. We do not need that number of members any miore than does the city of Ottawa need 245 mayors to run its municipal offices. There are too many cabinet ministers; there is too much duplication between provincial and federal services. For instance, we have provincial departments of labour and a federal Department of Labour. I am suggesting if the government is prepared to cut down expenditures I am prepared to support it, and that is going a long way for a Liberal. We could make many savings all along the line in eliminating federal and provincial duplication. We wonder, however, what the feelings of the charwoman will be when she finds her salary is again being cut and learns from the press that Milton N. Campbell, a member of this house will sit on the tariff board at a salary of $10,000 a year. I do not know what qualifications he has, except that he has been pretty consistent in his support of the Tories. We learn, further, that Judge Sedgewick of Ontario is being appointed chairman at a salary of $12,000 a year. In terms of wheat at western values it would take 60,000 bushels to pay the salary of Judge Sedgewick as tariff board chairman, and about 50,000 bushels to pay the salary of our friend and late departed member of the house.

Then, only a short time ago the personnel of the radio commission was selected. Heading the organization we find Hector Charlesworth, whose particular qualification seemed to be that in the years 1925 and 1926 he was

publicity man for the Tory party in Ontario. Aside from that I do not know what further qualifications he may have to act as chairman of the radio commission. May I add that I heard him make a speech over the radio from Montreal and I can truthfully state I never heard such a terrible exhibition in my life.

Mr. HEPBURN:

Then you admit that the national debt has been increased?

Mr. HEPBURN:

Well, as far as I am personally concerned I am prepared to support the Minister of Finance in this resolution. I do not think there is any need to waste the time of the house any longer-

Mr. HEPBURN:

To use his own expression, he said there were no damned comedians in Canada. I believe if he could have listened to his own speech he would have changed his views. One further remark. The Minister of Finance said that the debt of Canada had been increased during the regime of the Liberal government. That statement is rather misleading. True, we did guarantee the bonds of the Canadian National Railways, but we got value in return. We had assets to show for it. Following his own argument by way of explanation of the guarantee of the banks for the loan to Newfoundland, he said the government of Canada did not lend the money but backed the note. By the same kind of argument will he agree that the debt of Canada has been increased $700,000 in virtue of the guarantee to the banks by the dominion.

Mr. HEPBURN:

Can the minister give us an explanation with regard to the vote of 860,000 for warehouse extension at Windsor?