Mr. McICENZIE (Lambton-Kent):

Nothing was said as to who is responsible for that. I think the hon. member himself must take some responsibility for it. He knows that the government summons parliament, but the opposition says when it shall be prorogued. I am not going to debate this matter very long because I think we have talked it out. The treaty is in operation and we cannot change it. Why prolong this debate any further? If freedom of speech is one of the bulwarks of democracy, let us not play it to death in this House of Commons. I think we shall have to change our tactics if this House of Commons is to continue under our present constitution. I am quite convinced, and I am sure that other hon. members are likewise convinced, that at least half the business of the country could have been done by this time if we had not wanted to make political speeches in this House of Commons.

I am not going to be a sinner in that respect myself. We cannot change the trade pacts, so why debate the subject any longer? That is the attitude I take.

Hon. D. D. McKENZIE (Solicitor General):

Hon. D. D. McKENZIE (Solicitor General) :

This matter has been very ably discussed by the hon. member for North Toronto (Mr. Church), the hon. member for Cape Breton South (Mr. Carroll) and the hon. member for South York (Mr. Maclean). The question is not at all new to this House. It has been said to-day that it is of a national character, and it certainly is. While speaking for myself, I cannot say that I have not a more or less selfish interest in the matter, as I come from a province where they sell coal. Nevertheless, Mr. Speaker I assure you that I am sufficiently broad and sufficient of a Canadian to have the widest possible national interest in this question, and without boasting in any way, I am sure my record in this

House will show that for the last fifteen, or twenty years I have always endeavoured to bring home to the Canadian people the necessity of being independent in regard to their fuel supply. It is impossible to accomplish that independence without using the fuel supply we have within our borders. It is only a question of bringing the fuel to the place where it is now most needed. It is a great satisfaction to be able to say that the quantity of coal which we possess both east and west is not a matter of speculation or doubt. There is in Nova Scotia to-day-and this is not mere miners' talk about prospective minerals-to be seen and handled enough coal to last for many generations yet to come and supply the whole country. Can you imagine a territory along the northern coast of the county of Inverness, from twenty-five to sixty miles along the coast, of a virgin solid block of coal not yet touched? This stretch of coal area for sixty miles has an average width of four miles, with seams 13 to 16 feet, one underlying the other. Those who are familiar with coal mining know that it is not only one seam of coal that is usually found in these places, but one underlying the other, and it is only a question of cutting through the upper one to get to the lower, or to all the seams that you may require. This coal area in Inverness is not regarded as the largest coal area. In Cape Breton there is the virgin territory of which I have spoken. There is an equally large coal area in the county of Cape Breton and other counties. So that we can speak with assurance of the quantity of coal we have in Nova Scotia. Our coal fields in Nova Scotia are not confined at all to Cape Breton. Coal fields exist in Pictou county and in Cumberland county as large as in Cape Breton. I am making these observations to encourage our friends in Ontario and Quebec, and to show them that we have the coal and'that we have the proper facilities for the bringing of that coal to the place where it is required. Let me say that from a national standpoint we have not been treated quite properly by the people of Ontario, the people of Quebec, and of other parts of Canada, in relation to our exports during and after the war. Our miners in the county of Cape Breton and in the whole of the province of Nova Scotia, but particularly the county of Cape Breton, are sturdy, loyal, fighting men. As soon as war broke out, they were immediately ready or got ready, left their work, threw down their tools, and as quickly as possible they were found in the trenches in France and Flanders. We were all glad to see them go, but nevertheless the result was

Canadas Coal Supply

that we could not produce the coal. In our province, every man is not permitted to take up the pick and go and cut coal. He must pass an examination, like any other professional man; he must be permitted by license to cut coal, and for that reason, when our miners went to the front, we were crippled as regards producing the quantity of coal required. Moreover, the ships which we had for the conveyance of coal from ports of the island of Cape Breton to Montreal and other ports, were commandeered. In that way, our miners and our means of conveyance were taken away, and we could not meet the contracts which we undertook to fill. The result was that the Americans got our markets at Montreal, Toronto and every other place in which we had a market, and people when they start dealing in a certain direction, are not very ready to break off dealing in that direction when the old source of supply again becomes open to them. The difficulty was that after the war was over, we lost connection with the ports and places which I mentioned. It also took some time to get our ships back, and in that way we were largely crippled in our coal industry. I am glad that our capitalists, our miners and the men generally engaged in that business have fought with that difficulty and are back again pretty much to the condition in which they found themselves before the war. The reason why I mentioned that we were not treated fairly in that regard was that because our miners left their vocations and went overseas for the protection of Canada and the Canadian people, and the reason for which our ships were taken from us was also of a national character. Therefore, stock should have been taken of this situation by our friends, and as rapidly as possible we should have been restored to normal conditions as they existed before the war.

We have the coal east and west; the market for it is in the great centre of this country, and we must provide the means of utilizing the resources which we have for the benefit of our own people. As regards the places where this coal is produced, supposing, for instance, Nova Scotia could provide the major part of this coal which now comes from the United States. The hon. member for North Toronto (Mr. Church) informed us that over $56,000,000 goes out of this country every year for the purchase of coal. Let us suppose that at least 75 per cent of that money could be expended in Nova Scotia. It is only a matter of calculation to show the number of men that could be employed, and the advantage that would come to our people through keeping this money in Canada and utilizing the resources fMr. McKenzie. J

of our province. This would be good, not only for the workingmen, but for Nova Scotia which derives a revenue from the sale and production of coal.

I am glad that this question is once more going to a committee. If I were not as well acquainted as I am with the hon. member for Cape Breton South (Mr. Carroll) and the mover of the motion, the hon. member for North Toronto, I would be disposed to think that they are sidestepping this question and shelving it for a while. But I am sure that such is not the case, and I trust that no time will be lost in the committee submitting to this House and to the government whatever practical decisions they may reach upon this subject.

Mr. McKENZIE:

There is a standing committee, appointed not especially for this purpose, but for the purpose of dealing with mines and minerals, to which committee I understand it is the intention to submit this matter. I was just going to say, in conclusion, that two years ago we had what was known as the Fuel committee, or a committee for . the investigation of the fuel resources 5 p.m. of Canada. There was a very exhaustive and full investigation lasting over quite a number of weeks. A late member of this House, Dr. Steele, an excellent gentleman, who was very much in earnest about this question, was chairman of that committee. They made a report, and gave very useful information as to the quality of our coal; the means of transportation and so forth, received exhaustive attention before that committee. Let me inform the hon. member for North Toronto and the members of that committee that this report is in the form of a blue book, and that they will find in that book very useful information. I trust they will take advantage of it. I see that the Senate is at present taking an interest in this matter, and that it has a committee at work gathering information in connection with this very question. Let me suggest that there should be no overlapping in connection with this matter; that there should be no estrangement of any kind between the committee of the Senate and the proposed committee of the House of Commons. If possible at all, they should work and co-operate together, and let parliament and the country have the full fruition and benefit of what conclusions they may reach.

We used to hear the expression that "somebody could not wait." It is an old expression in this House that "somebody could not

Canada's Coal Supply

wait," for the emergency was too strong for time to be lost; but I need not assert in my own way that the people of this country, both those who are producing and those who are in need of coal, cannot wait very much longer, for the time is at hand and fully mature for practical and active co-operation and the producing of satisfactory results in this country.

The hon. member for North Toronto hoped that some member of the government would speak on this question. I am speaking, not as a member of the government, but simply as the representative in this House of Cape Breton North and Victoria, one who has the good fortune of representing many sturdy, hale and hearty good miners and producers of coal. I have been representing them in this House for many years, and I am glad as such, not is a member of the government, to have this word to say on a question which, I think, is of vital importance to them as well as to the country generally.

Hon. D. D. McKENZIE (Solicitor General) :

I have no objection to the proposed motion, but my hon. friend must not be disappointed when he finds that I have no document of the class he is calling for except one letter with a draft amendment which came to me from the Attorney General of British Columbia.