Mr. MOWAT:

Does it not mean the

plural of "seal?"

Mr. MOWAT:

The object of this motion was to signify the great deliverance from our enemy by establishing Armistice Day as a legal holiday, and to celebrate Thanksgiving Day, which usually comes about the same time, on the same day. Thinking that the business of the House would probably be protracted to a late hour and that the resolution would not be reached, 1 to-day gave notice of a Bill comprehending the subject contained in the resolution. In view of the fact that the hour is late I would now beg leave to withdraw the resolution in order that the whole matter may be discussed in the Bill which I propose to introduce.

Mr. MOWAT:

I presume they have all a fairly similar character. I am talking now of what is to be done in case of default by the Grand Trunk system, which default means the Grand Trunk defaulting by its different companies. It would be a dangerous thing to sell each of those different companies at one time, because you would

only have a temporary receivership which my hon. friend seems to covet or desire or believe in. The ultimate and inevitable result of proceeding's under a bond mortgage is the sale of the property, unless the bondholders take the property over themselves, and that is very seldom done, because the result of management by bondholders of commercial institutions has been disastrous on this continent, perhaps ever since such management has been attempted. No committee of bondholders has ever been able, so far as I can remember, successfully to run a railway. Therefore, we must bear in mind that the result of action by bondholders of the different companies will mean sale of the different companies separately. There would be offers for some of the companies which would be useful to other and rival railways, and the other companies composing the system would remain inactive for want of buyers to conduct them. We cannot go into this whole question without remembering that the Grand Trunk is a system and not a company and that, being a system, it must be protected as a system. Therefore, it seems to me that this proposed legislation, which is not unjust to the Grand Trunk, but which will have the effect of bringing them to the very point of negotiation which is indicated in the Times article printed in to-day's papers, is the wise course to take at the present time.

Mr. MOWAT:

I have not them before me. If I had been prepared for this, I would have looked the matter up and would give the hon. gentleman the best answer I could. I am speaking of the ordinary bonds.

Mr. MOWAT:

The Prime Minister's explanation is satisfactory so far as it goes, and I notice from the last clause of this Bill that it is only brought into effect by Order in Council. In the meantime these matters can be looked into; but it seems to me that before we finally conclude an arrangement with the province of Ontario, which seems to be rather keen on asserting its rights to water-powers on navigable rivers, as the Dominion has rather let go its powers in the past, there should be a perfect understanding that this agreement is without prejudice to any rights that belong to the Dominion over navigable waters and water-powers that exist in navigable waters. As regard the St. Lawrence, I do not think anybody can say otherwise than that there is a dispute between the Dominion and the province. The province asserts its rights to water-powers in the St. Lawrence for its hydro-electric system. It is true that it is an international river, but I do not see that the principle is different. The Dominion is also asserting its right to those powers which are of enormous value. If the province is about to grant to a private person the water-power rights in the Winnipeg river, as is said by my right hon. friend, it may do so in other cases wherever there are rapids. Nothing should be done without the Dominion interest being protected in this respect.