Mr. MOWAT:

I would like to intervene at this stage in order to call attention to a subject which was discussed very briefly this afternoon and which discussion seemed to end in rather an indeterminate manner-that is the importance of considering how much we can do for Canadian trade by establishing commercial agents in the United States. As it is now, those in the adjoining Republic who want to buy Canadian goods have no way of determining the extent of a particular trade or the rates in vogue, and we are accordingly at the greatest disadvantage in that respect as compared with the United States. The latter country has seventy or eighty commercial agents in Canada, most of whom are consuls, and these officers are furnished with admirable trade statistics of the manufactures of their country, and are

able at any time to supply those who are in want of goods from the United States with details in regard to railway rates and other data. We have no service of the kind in the United States, and the consequence is that Canadian manufacturers and producers are at a very great disadvantage in obtaining or filling orders from there. We now know that we are buying from the United States double the amount we export to that country, and this handicap could be largely overcome-so I am told by those who know, and it seems to me quite obvious-by having a better system of advertising our goods in the United States and indicating where reliable information could be obtained as to Canadian industries or products. The expense of such a proceeding would not be great for this reason: I am told, upon reliable authority, that the commercial agents of the United States in Canada-who, as I said before, are consuls and have consular offices in all our large centres-are paid fees by Canadians on the commercial paper involved in sending goods to the United States, and that these fees in the aggregate are sufficient to pay the entire salary or remuneration enjoyed by these commercial agents. We have therefore the extraordinary state of affairs that Canadians are paying the salaries or remuneration received by American officials, but Canada is getting no advantage from the value of the goods exported. I was told of a case by a gentleman in New York who received an enquiry from a manufacturer in New Orleans desirous of obtaining maple sugar and syrup from Canada. Unfortunately he did not know where to go. There was no Canadian agent to whom he could apply, and New Orleans is hundreds of miles away from this country. In some way or other he finally got information, through some agent in Montreal, as to where he could obtain these commodities and the result was that an order came from New Orleans for maple sugar and syrup to the extent of two carloads valued at several thousand dollars. If such a profitable transaction resulted in this' one case, how many more instances are there where Canada loses orders for trade simply because of the fact that the people living over there, at such a distance from this country, have no information as to where to place their orders. If it is a fact that the salaries or remuneration which the American trade agents, or consuls, in this country receive, come from fees paid by Canadians, it seems to me that the same

result would follow if Canadian trade agents were established in the United States. It would appear that if we could collect fees for Canadian trade agents appointed in the large American centres those fees would equal, and perhaps exceed, the remuneration that should be granted these officers, so there would be no extra expense to our country in putting such a system into effect. At present the work over there, as regards Canada, is done by the British consuls established in the large cities. While no fault can be found with the attention they give to Canadian affairs, they are not particularly anxious to see that Canadian orders are placed. They are British consuls, they are looking after the trade of Great Britain and Ireland, and while they are willing to do what is requisite there is no special effort made by them to help in the placing of Canadian orders. But if we had our own agents over there, and if a certain amount were placed at their disposal for the purpose of advertising in the papers where they were to be found, and what information they could give, I venture to say that a very large amount of the present disparity in the trade between the two countries would soon disappear, and we would find our Canadian business men deriving very great benefit by the appointment of these trade agents.

Mr. MOWAT:

My idea is that each different item-taxes, insurance, rent, and so forth-should be paid in one instalment, so that the man would know exactly what he would have to pay.

Mr. H. M. MOWAT (Parkdale) :

Mr. Speaker, I think we are indebted to my hon. friend and colleague in the next constituency to mine (Mr. Hocken), for bringing this matter before the House, and I desire to say a word or two in support of his resolution. He has pictured in a very lucid manner, and apparently as a result of much thought, a condition of domestic life which is not attended by proper comfort and safeguards. His experience for many years as controller and mayor in a large city has enabled him to speak with authority on these matters. I have been told by others, and I know myself, that in large cities now the housing situation is becoming so acute that something must be done, because the congestion makes a squalor which is bound to have an evil effect upon families and, indeed, one might say that it affects the morality of the people. A condition where there are three or four families in a seven-roomed house with a community of kitchen arrangements, and that sort of thing, cannot but have an evil effect and get us into the same condition which has been fought now for fifty or sixty years in the slums of the large cities of Europe. England and Scotland have known that, despite all the arguments against such a proposition from an economic standpoint, it is not the theory of economics that must be considered, but the condition that exists that must be met. That shows the importance of dealing in a serious manner with the resolution which is now before the House.

It is quite true that many of the remarks which fell from the lips of the hon. membe* for Oxford North (Mr. Nesbitt) may be agreed with, and yet dissented from on the ground that this is a condition of affairs which is fast becoming desperate. The remarks of my hon. friend, whose advice on

these matters is always listened to with attention in this House, should not have too much effect upon hon. members, because of the very careful, cautious manner in which he deals with a business proposition. The result of his remarks was to throw a wet blanket, so to speak, upon an admirable proposition. You cannot look at these things solely from a business standpoint at the present time, because with the return of the men from the war and their inability to cope with conditions of life on account of either mental or physical derangement, such a situation has been produced that the country must step in and, to some extent, be paternal in its efforts. I think the lending of money in the Northwest for grain is a totally different category from the present idea. Lending on wheat is lending on personal property, making a personal loan, and if some of that-only $2,000,000 as it appears-has not been repaid, that is unfortunate, but it is due to the condition that it is personal property and you have only the personal promise of the individual. But erecting buildings by Government, financing and keeping as security the buildings which you erect, means a loan which must be listed, in a totally different category. There is the building and the lot which cannot be removed, and you have not merely the personal promise of the occupant, but the building and the land themselves. Therefore, the security is infinitely better, and I do not think the House should be influenced to frown upon a motion of this kind where the security always seems to be in hand and not dependent altogether on the personal character of the borrower. It is true a careful loan company will get reports on the personal character of those to whom it proposes to loan money, and if it finds that the applicant is reckless or a spendthrift it will not lend to him-but that is largely for their own convenience because they do not wish to have to take over land on which they have loaned money.

The great advantage in a scheme of this kind, of building many houses, is that the cost is made so much less because of the standardization of the different parts, and because of the wholesale purchase of materials. Bricks and lumber, for instance, could be got wholesale from the manufacturers instead of each man buying individually, and by standardizing window frames and other articles you would get a very much cheaper general cost.

My hon. friend from London (Mr. Cronyn) has put in a word of caution against going into a scheme of this sort

as an aid to returned soldiers, on the ground that it may be demanded that the scheme be extended to men who wish money to start up in business, to men who already have houses on which there is a mortgage and which they ask to be relieved from, or to men who wish to obtain their money at a cheaper rate. These difficulties no doubt exist, and the demands may be made, but if you have a clear-cut proposal in the first place for the building and financing of houses in order to alleviate the dreadful condition in some of our cities, I think we can look with equanimity on what is likely to happen in the way of demands from other sources. If it is not possible for us to go further than this particular scheme, let us say so, and not refuse to go in,to, a good scheme simply because other and further demands may be made.

Mr. MOWAT:

In view of the discussion which took place in the House at the last sitting, when objection was taken by another company, and having regard to

the fact that it is not the desire of the promoters of the Bill to take any undue advantage, I would ask that the matter stand and that the Bill be referred back to the Committee on Banking and Commerce.

Mr. MOWAT:

I beg to move:

That the Order of the Day for the House to go into committee on Bill No. 15, An Act to Incorporate North American Trust Company of Canada, be discharged and that the Bill be referred back to the Select Standing Committee on Banking and Commerce.