Hon. E. M. MACDONALD (Minister of National Defence):

Mr. Speaker, a very

peculiar situation is before the House. My hon. friend from East Calgary (Mr. Davis) w has moved a resolution of a very general character and in the course of his address he stated that the ground of his moving it was one subject, and one subject only. Your Honour has ruled that that subject cannot be a matter of discussion in this debate, so that so far as this resolution is concerned, according to your ruling, Mr. Speaker, the matter referred to by the hon. member for East Calgary is eliminated from consideration by this House in this debate.

Hon. E. M. MACDONALD (Minister of National Defence):

Naturally, Mr. Speaker,

I am very deeply interested in this question and in the discussion which has taken place to-day. I want to commend my colleagues from Nova Scotia on the very fair and reasonable manner in which they have presented for the consideration of the House the problems that face us in Nova 'Scotia in regard to the steel industry. The discussion, however, has gone very far afield. We have drifted off into the consideration of whether Nova Scotia coal was good or bad, and into coal questions generally. All these matters have no relation at all to the vital issue before us. There is only one issue before us-small only having regard to all the other questions that have been referred to this afternoon and this evening, but in itself very vast and important.

Intimation was made to the government by representatives of the British Empire Steel Corporation that the Dominion Iron and Steel Company, one of their subsidiaries, was in such a position that they feared a receiver would have to be appointed. The reason they thought that course would have to be taken was on account of the information contained in the report of special accountants, known as Coverdale and Colpitts, who had made full and complete inquiries into the workings of the company and of all its subsidiaries. I happened to be present with my two colleagues, the Prime Minister (Mr. Mackenzie King) and the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb), when the president of the company conveyed that information to us, and I asked him what did he propose as a remedy. There were only two proposals that he made: first, that there should be a rearrangement of the law in regard to goods coming from countries where there was a depreciated currency; and secondly, he made an argument in favour of a bounty being granted upon coal that was used in the production of steel. He pointed out, by way of illustration, that the Steel Company of Canada and the Steel Company at the Soo, when they imported coal into Canada and used that coal in the manufacture of steel were entitled to receive and did receive a rebate from the government of 99 per cent of the duty that they had paid on the coal when it entered. Therefore, he argued that Nova Scotia should get a bounty of 50 cents upon

Dominion Iron and Steel

every ton of coal that entered into the production of steel. That would mean a .bounty of $2 a ton on every ton of steel. I stated to the president of the British Empire Steel Corporation that I could hardly see the logic of his proposition. In the one case you were rebating duties to companies importing coal, and you were not giving any subsidy at all, but in the other case you proposed to go into the treasury and give a subsidy of $2 a ton on every ton of steel manufactured out of Canadian coal, and that the proposal was one that we would have to consider very carefully. In view of the conditions which he said existed in the Dominion Iron and Steel Company, as disclosed of this report of Coverdale and Col-pitts, the government came to the conclusion that in order to have t'he full and proper information before us, in order to ascertain first, what was the cause of existing conditions, and secondly, what we ought to do, we could not move intelligently unless we had that report. I think the House will agree with me that that was a reasonable and proper proposal, and so my hon. friend and colleague the Minister of Finance (Mr. Robb) conveyed that information to the president of the company.

Hon. gentlemen who were here this afternoon have followed the correspondence which took place, in which Mr. Wolvin took the position that he would not produce the report. Finally, at a conference on Friday last he intimated to the Prime Minister and my colleague the Minister of Finance that he would produce the report for their private consumption only, and that they should not be permitted to communicate even to their colleagues in the government what was in the report. Now that is naturaly a very unreasonable position. Every hon. gentleman who has parliamentary or governmental experience knows that under the oath of office that every privy councillor takes, there are at all times important matters of confidential character which all members of the government have to keep secret in the public interest. We never thought of suggesting that the report should be given to us for the purpose of being thrown open to the public or anything of that kind, but simply and solely for the purpose of enabling us to know the cause of the present conditions, and what was the best remedy-^-because enough was said, and enough has been said in addresses to the shareholders of this company, to indicate that this firm of accountants did make certain findings and also certain recommendations as to the future.

The position of the government is this: We feel we are entitled, before we come to any

policy in regard to the matter, to a perusal of that report. It might be found necessary that certain portions of the report should be given to the House and the country in justification of any action we might propose to take or of any policy we propounded. I am sure that no hon. gentleman with any sense of responsibility would say that this government could act until we have before us the facts contained in that report. We are not insensible to the present position of the company; we appreciate the grave consequences that would follow to the province by the sea if this steel industry should fail, or as my hon. friend from St. Lawrence-St. George (Mr. Cahan) said, be ruined. The consequences would be serious not only to the section where this industry is located, but to all the other industries throughout the province. We are prepared to give the fullest and most sympathetic consideration to any proposition that can be made, and will endeavour to devise proposals in order that what is said to be impending may be averted. But we do think, and we submit to the House, that the president of the British Empire Steel Corporation should allow us to examine that report in order that, being acquainted with the facts, we migjht know what to do.

Hon. E. M. MACDONALD (Minister of National Defence):

My hon. friend will recall that the form of that resolution was in question for some time and he wrote me stating that a certain portion of the information would be satisfactory. That portion is now being prepared, and will be brought down in a few days.

GRADING OF EGGS On the Orders of the Day:

Hon. E. M. MACDONALD (Minister of National Defence):

The situation in regard to the walls of the citadel at Quebec is this. From a military standpoint the citadel has become entirely obselete and the department has no great interest in maintaining it as a matter of defence. The ground, however, is of great historic value and we feel that the *city and province of Quebec might well share in whatever the Dominion government might do in the way of preserving the citadel as a spot of historic interest.

Conferences have been held with that end in view and estimates have been obtained as to what the cost would be of restoring the citadel and maintaining it in a proper state of repair. Those estimates show that the cost would run in the vicinity of $425,000 so that a very costly proposal has to be considered. The department at all times has been ready to confer with the city and province of Quebec as to what steps might be taken towards the preservation of this very interesting, memorial of the past.

My attention has been called to a statement in the press with reference to the condition of a portion of the ramparts and what is known as Rampart street. I desire to say in answer to my hon. friend that the records of the department show that that particular street and its condition are entirely under the control of the city of Quebec which took the street over in 1922 and assumed the responsibility of looking after it in all respects. If anything is wrong in connection with that street the fault is that of the city of Quebec.

There appears in the estimates of this year an item of $10,000 which was rendered necessary in order to prevent the falling of a portion of the citadel walls which would have imperilled lives and property, and tenders have now been called for the purpose of carrying on this work as quickly as possible.

Supply-Railways and Canals

Hon. E. M. MACDONALD (Minister of National Defence):

Having sat in the last two sessions of parliament where this motion went through by consent of all parties, I think hon. gentlemen who are worried about their rights being curtailed, need have no fear on that score. The Minister of Railways will probably next week present his annual statement to the House and a motion will be made to refer that to the committee for consideration. As in past years the fullest discussion was permitted as a matter of right and the

3564 [DOT] COMMONS

National Railways and Shipping Committee

hon. member for St. Lawrence-St. George need have no worry about having an opportunity of putting before the House any views he has in regard to the question of the Canadian National Railways or its management because the fullest and most complete right of putting questions to the government exists during that period. As regards matters of detail on which members want complete and full information, they have a better opportunity of obtaining it through members on that committee than on the floor of the House where only questions may be asked.