Mr. Kirk:

I thank you again for your ruling, not only for your ruling but the very kind way in which you made it. I only had one other main topic that I wished to mention, but in deference to your ruling I shall, of course, not do so. However, I am wondering whether one of the reasons I may have gone as far afield as I have on second reading is the fact that for the last few weeks I have done quite a bit of reading of speeches made by the Minister of Finance when he sat on this side of the house.

May I close by saying that we in the Atlantic provinces quite frankly appreciate this move and quite frankly say that we think it is a step in the right direction. We think it will be of help. We realize that so far as the $25 million is concerned, of which $7| million will go to my own province of Nova Scotia, it is for a period of four years and therefore is an interim deficiency payment. Nevertheless we believe it is a move in the right direction and will increase the incomes of the governments of each of the four provinces. It will enable them to carry on certain projects which they have started and others which they feel they must start.

Having said that, however, I must say in all fairness that when the announcement was made the premier of my own province, Premier Stanfield, as reported in the press only a day or two ago, said that while this measure would help it was not nearly enough, and would not provide for doing nearly as much as they had hoped would be done for

Dominion-Provincial Relations the benefit of Nova Scotia. Without mentioning again any of the specific items I mentioned earlier I say that much as this will be of help, if the government would take bolder and more imaginative action they would assist not only the Atlantic provinces but all the provinces of Canada. I do not mean by increasing substantially and directly the incomes of the provincial governments, but by taking such action as would increase the per capita income of the individuals in each of the provinces, and thus in turn improving the income not only of the provinces but of the federal government.

Mr. Kirk:

I have followed this debate

very carefully and have been in the house practically all the time since the resolution was first introduced. I have listened rather carefully to the discussions that have taken place and the points of view that have been brought forward, and in practically every case I felt that they met very carefully and accurately the words of the Minister of Finance when, in introducing the resolution, he said the government attaches very great importance to the measure for it looks upon it as one that will bring aid to the provinces and municipalities in this country and will be effective also in meeting the problem of unemployment. It was because of his original comments that I felt, sir, I would be in order in mentioning these matters but not debating them at length. I am trying to show that there would be even greater benefits to the

Atlantic provinces if further action were taken along the lines I have suggested.

I suggest that it would be of great help to us in the Atlantic provinces if assistance were given to the new British Caribbean federation and if long range plans were developed so that we could expand trade with that area. So far as my own province is concerned, in fact along the whole seacoast of the Atlantic provinces, we had our greatest development and economic activity in the days when we were trading by water with other seacoast areas.

Another thing I believe would be of even more help would be assistance in the establishment of trunk highways so that we in the Atlantic provinces could bring our products not only to the provinces of central Canada but to the thickly populated area of the United States, particularly the New England states. I believe further thought should have been given to the matter before the bill was introduced, with a view to following other methods to assist transportation within the Atlantic provinces and improve our facilities through the building of trunk highways, the construction of a causeway to Prince Edward Island, and extension of coastal services in the newest province of Newfoundland.

The study originally suggested some months ago and started prior to last June with respect to the effect of the Maritime Freight Rates Act should be continued and it should be decided whether or not the change from 20 to 30 per cent, that is the 50 per cent increase in the preference, which was given last spring, is adequate at the present moment. While that is being done, of course, there should be provision made for a continuing study of this particular problem. So far as the coal mines are concerned, as a rule my confrere the hon. member for Inverness-Richmond usually speaks in the house on that subject, as it is one in which he is very well versed and with respect to which he is most qualified to speak. But I should like to say that I believe further assistance should be extended. There should be some sign of imagination on the part of the government, some program of scientific and industrial research as to the possibilities of the use of coal and other natural resources as another means of expanding employment and increasing the per capita income of the maritime provinces.

In doing that I feel that a good deal of thought should have been given and must be given to the production and marketing of coal. If necessary there should be greater and more flexible use of subventions, not only with respect to the use of coal within the maritime provinces but also in central Canada.

One of our biggest problems in the mari-times, particularly in the province of Nova Scotia, has to do with farm or rural credit. Only a few months ago the Hawkins commission in the province of Nova Scotia made very definite recommendations.

Mr. T. A. M. Kirk (Shelburne-Yarmouth -Clare):

Mr. Speaker, to the best of my knowledge no Nova Scotian has as yet taken part in this debate. As a Nova Scotian I should like to make a few comments on Bill No. 247, and to make special reference to that portion of the bill which applies to the special fiscal or adjustment grants.

In doing so, however, I should first of all like to pay a tribute to Mr. Henry D. Hicks, the present leader of the Liberal opposition in the province of Nova Scotia and the former premier of that province who, when attending the preliminary conference in April of 1955, first made the suggestion that special fiscal or adjustment grants should be made. In making that proposal he brought it forth as one that would apply not only to the Atlantic provinces. He brought it forth as a type of policy which could be applied to any province should conditions arise similar to those which were in effect in the maritime or Atlantic provinces when he first brought forward the proposal.

There is no question but that the people in the Atlantic provinces will consider this $25

million, this portion which is to be the special assistance grant or special fiscal grant, of great assistance. They will consider this a move in the right direction. I think they realize, as must the house, that a move of this nature, an amount such as $25 million, is needed in the Atlantic provinces today because of the deteriorating economic conditions even more than it was when Mr. Hicks first made the suggestion less than three years ago. I feel that the real objective of the government should not be deficiency payments, if I may call them that, to the governments of the Atlantic provinces but efforts to bring about higher incomes for the people of the Atlantic provinces. Such higher incomes could be brought about, of course, by policies leading to industrial development. In other words, what we need to assist us in the Atlantic provinces are some imaginative proposals and policies.

I am thinking of one of the steps that was taken along that line only last year or to be more exact, less than a year ago. It was one of the most imaginative steps that has ever been proposed for the maritime provinces. I refer to the action by the then minister of northern affairs and national resources, the hon. member for Montmagny-L'Islet (Mr. Lesage) and the then finance minister, Mr. Harris, when they brought forth the thermal power policy for the Atlantic provinces.

I think of another step which was taken by previous Liberal governments within the last few years which resulted-

Mr. Kirk:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As usual I will bow to your ruling. I will say to you, if I may, and to the Minister of Finance that what I was trying to show was that in the past imaginative proposals have been put forward by previous Liberal governments, and I am trying to show that what we need in the maritime provinces is such policies rather than what I called a moment ago deficiency payments.

With that in mind I think there are several steps that could be taken which would be of assistance to carry out the purposes of the bill as outlined by the Minister of Finance. He said it is to authorize the payment of certain grants to the Atlantic provinces. In the course of his speech he spoke of the great

Dominion-Provincial Relations good it would do the Atlantic provinces, and he referred to the present unemployment situation.

I do not intend to go into details about the unemployment situation, particularly after the comments which were made this morning, but I would hope that some action would be taken or some policy developed which would relieve the present unemployment situation, improve the employment situation and bring about a higher per capita income to the people of the province rather than a higher income to the government of the province directly from the federal government.

I think one of the things that might and could be done by this government in these proposals would be to bring us up to date with respect to a survey of the natural resources of the Atlantic provinces, so we could make speedier use of our natural wealth and thereby raise the standard of prosperity in that part of Canada, and at the same time raise the income of the individual citizens. Another move we might make which would be of great assistance would be the development of an Atlantic provinces capital assistance fund for the purpose of financing those large projects which are essential for sound industrial development.

Mr. T. A. M. Kirk (Shelburne-Yarmouth-Clare):

I should like to ask the Minister of Trade and Commerce if he recalls my request made on Saturday last that this gift of $1J million worth of Canadian flour to the Middle

East be transported in Canadian-manned and Canadian-registered vessels. Last Saturday the minister told me he would take the matter under advisement, and I would like to ask if he has reached a decision on this matter.